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George W. Bush & The Longhorn Network: Austin's Miserable Failures

More people probably watched this LHN interview with NBA players T. J. Ford (C) and Kevin Durant from the mostly vacant stands at Darrell K. Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium than on LHN. (Photo by Erich Schlegel/Getty Images)

During former President George W. Bush's second term in office, a bunch of Democrats set up a "Google-bomb" to link the terms "miserable failure" to President Bush's official White House biography. Mostly this was in response to the ongoing Iraq war where the "weapons of mass destruction", the official justification for the war, were never found. Yet the war lingered on for years at an immense cost in terms of lives lost and a rapidly growing budget deficit.

Whether or not you agree with that assessment of America's 43rd President, it's clear that another product of Austin now deserves the title of "Miserable Failure."  It's not subject to political whims...even Texas fans hate the fact that their favorite team now has games televised on a network virtually nobody can watch. ESPN and Texas recognize that things aren't going well at the Longhorn Network, and are taking any and every step they can to push the Longhorn Network. Against Big XII policies, ESPN has transferred ABC's rights to the Kansas/Texas game to LHN so that a second game will be on their network. Meanwhile, ESPN and Texas officials continue to try to find ways to get Texas high school games on the network.

Star-divide

All that has led to renewed instability in the Big XII Conference. Texas A&M has already announced their plans to withdraw, and is likely heading towards the SEC. Oklahoma seems to be headed towards the Pac-12, and taking Texas Tech and Oklahoma State along with them. And in the biggest irony, Texas seems to be ready to abandon the albatross that is the Longhorn Network to join the Pac-16 as well.

But wait...isn't that, quite possibly, the answer to salvaging the Big XII? Simply put:  the Longhorn Network is an abject failure for both ESPN and Texas. No cable company is willing to subsidize ESPN's absurd deal with Texas, and the instability that LHN has created makes life difficult for Texas.  So rather than slink off to the Pac-16 as an excuse to cut their ties with ESPN, it's blatantly obvious what the correct answer is.  ESPN and Texas should simply abandon the deal with the Longhorn Network, and shut down the broadcasts immediately.  If ESPN wants to salvage some of their investment in infrastructure, turn around and call Dan Beebe and create a new Big XII Network using the resources already sunk into LHN.

I don't know if the Big XII can be salvaged, but the sooner that Texas and ESPN cut the cord on the Longhorn Network, the better for everyone concerned. A&M hasn't signed onto a new conference, and Oklahoma's decision hasn't been made yet either.  Can the arrogance that is the University of Texas yield to the realization that their creation has been a complete miserable failure and end it before the Big XII is effectively destroyed and everybody (including Texas, I might add) is damaged?

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In a word

no.

They’re myopically certain of their status as “Texas” at this point.

by SccrHskr on Sep 5, 2011 6:51 PM CDT reply actions  

The Big 12 died

when Nebraska left. Any school, other than the Huskers, the Sooners, or (and this pains me to say) the Horns, could leave and the conference would not only survive, but thrive. Without Nebraska the conference was doomed.

by OUHoopitup on Sep 5, 2011 8:13 PM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions  

The Big 12 would have been OK...

…without Nebraska had A&M stayed. Weakened, but it could have worked. But it’s not what A&M wanted.

In theory, the conference could survive NU and A&M leaving, barely, but what I think is really playing out, at the end of the day, despite all of the accusations and counter-accusations being thrown around, is the reality of geography and trying to maintain a major conference in the Farm Belt in the modern era. It just can’t work.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

One big rec.

There you have it, all in one big nut shell.

Perfectly stated.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 5, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does ESPN have enough good judgment left, though?

SEE: James, Craig: continued broadcasting career of.

Editor, Voodoo Five, South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
The Toughest Blog in America

by GarySJ on Sep 5, 2011 7:14 PM CDT reply actions  

So I read BON's article and some of their comments...

It sounds like all those hypocritical half-breeds are pissed and are leaving angry messages to carriers to try and force them to pick up LHN..

Quention is, if said carriers, for whatever reason, decide to give in, how would this work? Would it be a deal where you have to pay an extra fee for just the one channel or would they add this to their sports package and up their current fee?

I have dish network with the sports package, and if they think for a second that ill pay an extra buck simply because of this channel, I’m fucking dropping their service the instant I find out about it.

Should I be worried? Should we create a movement to nick pick up or not charge the rest of us for the LHN in the event they do pick it up?

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 7:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

The hypocritical half-breeds won the game in your avatar

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That you did! Congratulations!

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

do you remember what happened the moment of my avatar pic?

Mccoy turned into superman and flew about 7 yards!

And yes you won, but we’re in this crazy thing called “the present” now.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 8:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Touche.

I just have way too many friends who are texas fans and I’ve become a 23-yr old very bitter old man because of them..

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 8:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of Texas.

But it seems like any “anti-other-school” sentiment invites them to troll about Nebraska’s Texas futlity and the older generations’ collective arrogance concerning Nebraska’s 40+ years of success on the gridiron.

Texas fans just seem really in tune to such things.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

The term "cable household" is most relevant

ESPN and LHN really don’t care about sattelite.

The endgame for ESPN/LHN is to get the LHN on the basic cable tier alongside ESPN, TNT, TBS, USA.

Texas has between 8-9 million cable households – that is, households on which they can command a premium price for the channels. Using the BTN’s metric, this averages $0.88 inside the B1G footprint. Since the entire state of Texas presumably is the LHN’s footprint, using BTN numbers, you see a possible take of 7.92 million per year.

Now, ESPN may think that the state of Texas is a captive audience and is trying to charge a super-premium price, whcih if accepted, would bring in more revenue.

For those outside Texas, you may get it on your sports tier for about $0.05 (again using BTN numbers).

by rogerja on Sep 6, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, 7.92 million per month, not year.

by rogerja on Sep 6, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

So, by your logic...

…the BTN was a miserable failure because virtually no one in Columbus, Ohio was able to watch the Buckeyes’ first game on the BTN back in 2007?

But you’re right. It’s always good to rush to judge a new network a failure or a success in its first week in business.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 7:54 PM CDT reply actions  

And you're suggesting LHN will have the same eventual appeal?

A conference network versus a single team network?

Now if LHN expands to encompass all Texas sports (yes, I know they offered Texas A&M and A&M balked), it should do well as a regional network.

But at the end of the day, it’s unlikely that any single school can drum up sufficient demand for a nationwide network showing only their school’s content 24/7. Not even Notre Dame has that pull and they actually have a national fan base.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying...

…it will have the same appeal. As you point out, it would be difficult for a single-university network to match the overall appeal of a 12-university network. But I don’t think it has to come close to the same level of appeal to make all parties involved happy.

But that wasn’t the point of my comment. My point is that it is waaaaay too premature to proclaim the LHN a “miserable failure” based on ESPN’s inability to secure wider distribution before opening weekend. The problems the BTN had out of the gate more than anything else should provide guidance as to how out-of-the-box collegiate programming might take a while to achieve the desired market share.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see your point and I'll have to agree.

What do you think the next move for LHN is?

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keep plugging away

I’ve actually been somewhat skeptical of the network’s prospects. But what has reassured me over the past month that this thing might work is seeing the reactions not just of natural-born-whiners like Texas A&M but even normally “friendly” faces like T. Boone Pickens express concern. Pickens is also a major UT donor in addition to everything he’s done for OSU, and if he comes out with harsh words, I think that means people are beginning to realize, now that it’s no longer just a theory but a real live network, that this thing is going to work after all.

That being said, the simplistic answer is that LHN has to find wider distribution. (Duh!) No being privy to the negotiations, it’s impossible to know whether ESPN is being unreasonable in its rights fees or if cable providers are being stingy. Not being privy to call centers, it’s impossible to know whether the Time Warners of the world would want another week in which all of of the “hypocritical half breeds” are calling in again before the October 29 Kansas game or if it was just another week at the office for any cable company.

Who knows.

One thing that did make me go hmmmmm during the game, though, was that one of the major advertisers for an ostensibly national network was HEB, a grocery store chain which doesn’t even extend as far north as Dallas.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Honestly I don't really care

As long as carriers don’t try to shove LHN into a sports package and charge people extra for that. If you really think about it, they stand to lose more people than they gain, out of principle, by going with a move like that.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 8:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

This.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously...

…at the end of the day, how many people would actually not order a sports package, or cancel service altogether, just because there’s one channel on there they don’t like?

To use a political anaolgy, those who are politically motivated probably could care less for either FOX News or MSNBC, yet I don’t think too many MSNBC viewers cancel cable altogether because they’re “paying” for FOX at the same time.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you'd be surprised.

Football hate is a little more universal than MSNBC/Fox News watchers.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I guarantee you

Adding up all the nebraska fans(and hopefully by association and show of support from the brotherhood, B1G fans,) OU fans, A&M fans, USC fans, and perhaps others will certainly bitch and probably cancel, out of principle. I know I would, and I know plenty of people here in Omaha would.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:01 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

So you'd cancel a sports package and the many channels (and football games!) which came with it...

…just to avoid LHN?

That’s highly unlikely.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know about your sports package...

But mine doesn’t have many channels worth watching (just the BTN alternates which I can apparently get online)…And if LHN was added to it, it’d be gone five minutes later.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

The minute dish picks it up

Is the minute I call directv.

There are other options you know? Not all are national, many are regional, and the regionals can grow they customer base out of such a move by major carriers.

After all, I don’t watch lots of specialized tv, mostly natgeo, military, discovery, history, fx, usa, B1G, etc. Things pretty much every carrier has.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

as a matter of fact

I’m feeling these urges to start a counter-movement to get people to call and threaten if we’re charged extra because of LHN, we’re dropping.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

If the price stayed the same, I wouldn't cancel the sports package....

I would, however, delete it from my channel guide. Out of sight, out of mind.

by jrf2027 on Sep 6, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

A not insignificant number of people would cancel

This neither the only nor the first place where people have pledged to cancel or reported that they already informed their cable/satellite provider of their intent to cancel.

I don’t get cable/satellite, but if I did I wouldn’t hesitate to cancel if they picked up the LHN and I certainly won’t subscribe to any distributor who carries it in the future.

It’s not just that it’s Texas. I don’t have a problem with one school having a channel, but the LHN is failing and Texas and Disney have responded by actively undermining the ability of other schools and the conference to market their own rights. I have philosophical objections to one university behaving this way with respect to other universities and I would cancel any service that carried a channel managed in a similar manner even if it were my alma mater that profited from it.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

This.

Texas has very much turned this from the usual dickish, selfserving move to a very anti-sportsmanship, against nearly every fiber of any rational football fan’s being move.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

But what about the irrational football fans like you?

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

You know what's irrational?

Complaining that the NCAA won’t let LHN air high school games. And then creating posts on BON about anti-trust lawsuit threats.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

We're just half-breeds. Would you expect otherwise?

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't actually think you're all half-breeds.

Just dan beebe, and david ubben. But I do think you are hypocrites, especially about crying over not being able to air high school games.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

What is the specific hypocrisy here?

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

And, again, how are we being "hypocrticial" by calling that unfair?

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, I'm no Horn fan

But…I’m lost as well. What about that makes them hypocrites? Have they said someone else’s network shouldn’t allow high school games…and then said that the LHN should be allowed to have them?

by Wolvie on Sep 5, 2011 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

wait, maybe you weren't even aware just how huge an unfair recruiting advantage airing high school games is.

Well its a very unfair advantage. Most Texas fans don’t see it this way though, unfortunately. And the sport, the alumni, and fanbases in general of every other school suffer the consequences. See: Iowa st, kansas, the entire big east in about 5 years.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 10:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That's exploiting advantages rather than hypocrisy

One can argue that it’s unseemly for UT/ESPN/LHN to seek to televise high school football games, but I don’t think “hypocrites” is quite the word you’re looking for.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Queue Princess Bride quote

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by Wolvie on Sep 5, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly

With a whole universe of potentially more applicable word to use here as well…

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

“Hypocrisy” has largely been invoked by Texas fans as a response to others objecting to showing High School games. Charges of hypocrisy may or may not be valid, but it’s not a valid response to objections to high school material. Just because someone else would do it in a different position, doesn’t mean they aren’t right about it being inappropriate.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

No.

Using the recruiting advantage would be exploiting advantages and not hypocrisy. Calling NCAA’s ruling unfair, that’s the hypocrisy. Unfair is probably the mildest word used by texas fans to describe it too.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think that's whinging maybe

but not sure it’s hypocrisy, unless they were using those rules to somehow stop someone else from doing something.

/I generally agree that Texas fans have a blind spot w/r/t the LHN but don’t get the hypocrisy angle or at least haven’t see it myself.

by SccrHskr on Sep 6, 2011 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Number of UT fans who would switch providers to get this channel >>>>>>>>> number of UT haters who would cancel to avoid the channel.

Seriously, it’s not even close. Pretending that there would be a groundswell of message board posters who would stop this is folly.

There are many legitimate reasons why LHN might not succeed to the extend envisioned, This isn’t one of them.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Certainly

more people would specifically switch to get the LHN than to protest it, but the number of people who would cancel or never subscribe out of principle is not insignificant.

 Both of the those numbers however are much smaller than the number of people who won’t make any principled decision. But, for every increase in the amount charged some number of people cancel at the margins, and cable/satellite distributors are facing growing numbers of people who refuse to pay for 500 channels to get the 10 channels they want. They do not want to increase rates right now. If they pick up LHN, they’ll ultimately have to drop another channel, which will involve losing subscribers who wanted that channel. This is all modeled out. They know the exact price points under various scenarios that would make the LHN a good deal. Right now, it’s not. Either LHN will get valuable programing or Disney will drop the price.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

They know the exact price points under various scenarios that would make the LHN a good deal. Right now, it’s not. Either LHN will get valuable programing or Disney will drop the price.

And this is how it plays out and becomes a viable network, like most new networks in their infancies.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

Unless DIsney has to drop the price lower than initially projected and starts forecasting a loss. Then, that’s how it becomes a failed network.

In posting on this thread, I’ve basically had two primary points. This line is more about whether a significant number of people would cancel in protest. I think they would and the distributors are accounting for that, but I would bet that they receive more phone calls from disgruntled Texas fans because they are the ones not able to watch the games that they want to see.

My bigger points have been that (1) those very complaints have been intentionally fostered by Disney to drive up the price. At bottom, Texas and Disney are exploiting the loyalty of Texas fans for their financial gain. It makes economic sense to broadcast the Rice game without an independent network, but Disney and Texas are refusing to do so to force Texas fans to buy an entire channel that is otherwise unwatchable. You really going to watch repeat highlights of Texas’ Women’s golf when the Cinci-WVU game or the OSU-’Zona game is on?

My main point has actually been agreeing with you that’s it’s too early to call the channel a failure because the programming available to it may expand if Beebe can get the other conference members to swear allegiance to Texas and hold Oklahoma by force. I find this demeaning and morally repulsive, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t be effective.

If Disney has to drop the price too far, the network will fail, but they won’t have to drop the price so long as Kansas and others may agree to play on the LHN even as doing so make it impossible for them to ever market their own rights effectively.

It’ll be interesting because Texas would actually make the most money by going to the Pac-16, getting a piece of that larger pie and by sharing a regional network. If they went with Oklahoma, OSU, and Mizzou (instead of Texas Tech), such that Texas and Oklahoma shared one regional network, Texas would actually make a lot more money. But, to do that Texas and Disney will have to give up some control. It’s the right move for everyone, but they’ll have to swallow their pride and agree to play by the same rules as every other university in the country in order to do it. What a shame that would be…

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you really think that?

Do you really think your average OU fan is going to stick around knowing some of their money is going to end up at texas?

Wake up dude. Texas has officially overreached, if there’s a time for your collective group of texas supporters to realize texas is really just going way overboard, this is it. And try to save what’s left of your souls.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Do you really think your average OU fan is going to stick around knowing some of their money is going to end up at texas?

Very few college football fans are going to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

And the fact that you’re using language like we need to “save what’s left of [our] souls” in a matter relating to the televising of college athletics shows that you don’t seem to have much rationality when discussing UT. At least Salt Creek is very rational and articulate about his dislike for Texas without it clouding rational thinking.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

It isn't like if OU fan cancels their current carrier, they'll be without options.

Anybody in any one metro area has anywhere between 3-5 options for cable/satellite. Maybe even more.

As you’ve confirmed here, there will certainly be unhappy people if they’re forced to pay for what they deem is very much against what they stand for. And if you take salt creek or I for example, having the option to switch to cox, qwest, or directv, I would drop dish on a heartbeat.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 10:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

More people in Oklahoma will cancel

than subscribe over the LHN. That’s for sure. If Nebraska were still in the conference there wouldn’t be any doubt they would do the same. Kansas won’t do anything because it would be a tacit admission that football was king, which would be a tacit admission that Kansas is irrelevant.

I think it really depends on whether its a football state within the same conference footprint. If Texas were in the SEC and they tried to do the LHN, there would be significant resistance. Because Texas is in a different conference, I don’t think they’re paying enough attention to it to respond.

The demographic you’re selling to is very loyal and divided in their respective loyalties. If the realities of the LHN had a higher profile outside the BigXII, resistance would be very significant. But Disney is largely in control of how high a profile the LHN has and they’ve got the SEC ignoring anything that happens elsewhere.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

So, if you put yourself in the position of a Kansas fan.

Are you not pissed? This could be far larger than just a few pissed off people on some message board on the interwebs.

Say what you will about Notre Dame fans, but if you’re one of them and you think your school has it great the way things are now, are you not pissed that you have to adjust to a reality completely different than the one your grandfather was even used to simply because Bevo cannot hog enough shit in the world for itself?

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pissed if the gambit fails and Texas and OU with all the $Texas leaves for the Pac-16.

Relieved if Texas stays and you aren’t left scrambling for a new home.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well kind of.

Before A&M leaving, NU was the bad guy per every pawn in the B12, although they knew very well that while they’re getting more money, they’re just taking it up the ass by Texas.

Well now that A&M is leaving, maybe some have had time to reflect and realized that no, NU was never the problem.

Think of it this way, this is all one big mafia family and Texas is the boss. And Kansas St thinks its all badass because it’s in the mafia, but next thing you know, rumor gets out that Kansas St is making money on the side that it shouldn’t be, so Texas then decides to just whack him. That’s the position Kansas St is in right now, along with Mizzou, ISU, Baylor, etc.

by Fake Pelini on Sep 5, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Doubtful.

They still blame us, if only because we hit took the first parachute.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, it could be worse.

We could be Texas.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

(Where'd that "hit" come from?)

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Crick

or Stafford.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 5, 2011 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Man. that was so sweet.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 5, 2011 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh well done.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

They still blame us, if only because we hit took the first parachute.

Beebe is actively selling that to Kansas, K-State, Mizzou, Baylor and Iowa State. Texas fans may say that, but actually many of them don’t blame Nebraska either. Most A&M fans certainly don’t. Oklahoma fans don’t blame Nebraska at all, and Oklahoma State thinks whatever Boone Pickens tells them to think (luckily for them he’s fairly reasonable). Even Tech and Baylor fans are exposed to Texas enough not to blame Nebraska for bailing.

Nebraska got work that the entire South plus Colorado was about to bail for the Pac-10 and leave it in the lurch. Then Beebe asked for “long-term commitments” of five years, which isn’t long term at all. If Nebraska can’t count on the conference being there longer than 5 years, then they’re gone, and rightly so. Most fans paying much attention understand that.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, many still hate us

Particularly KSU fans. Ever read BOTC lately? They still have as much venom for us as they do A&M. They will willingly be Texas’ lackey.

Hell, I posted as a Fanshot, a link to a bit on their site where they have a timeline of Big 12 implosion. They have Nebraska leaving first, a week or so before Colorado (whereas Colorado actually left the day before Nebraska). No mention at all of the rumors of the South moving west to create the Pac-16 (which Perlman actually knew about a day or two before it became public). All an effort to paint Nebraska as the bad guys.

Oklahoma doesn’t hate us. Texas never cared (most of them think this is about being 1-9 v Horns…which it wasn’t). Many Aggies have seen the light. But our former Big 12 North bretheren? We were, and always will be, the villains.

by Wolvie on Sep 6, 2011 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm the other way around

Conference members agreeing to go on the LHN kills any chance of ever having a conference network or ever being able to market their 3rd tier rights unless they actually market them through the LHN, which just gives Texas a cut of rights that belong to Kansas. So, if the conference hangs together because Kansas and others are willing to sell their third tier rights to Texas who then sells them for a profit on LHN, I would have a major crisis of faith if I were a Kansas fan. Kansas would effectively be a subsidiary of Texas, and I don’t know that I could continue to be a fan of a team that’s supposedly competing with a team that controls its finances. That feels a lot like being a Washington Generals fan.

If the league were falling apart and admins were just taking a payday from the LHN before it got wrapped into the Pac-16, I can live with that because it doesn’t sacrifice the school’s independence long term.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

What options does Kansas have?

If football is driving everything, they’re kind of lacking in that department.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Be Kansas

Go to the Big East. Join the Mountain West. Joint the WAC. Whatever. But join a league where you’re on a level playing field with the other members.

If you you’re selling your rights to Texas so they can resell them at a profit, then you aren’t partners and you shouldn’t pretend to be. I’d rather watch Kansas compete with WAC schools than watch it get paid to be Texas’ lackey.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Washington Generals"

I swear I had not read this when I basically said Kansas would be agreeing to be the Washington Generals. But I think the fact that this conclusion has been independently drawn suggests just how valid it is.

by BigFatScott on Sep 6, 2011 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very few college football fans are going to cut off their noses to spite their faces.

You say that, but A&M is actively marching into the SEC when they could make a Pac-16 deal happen at the drop of a hat.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think A&M's a good example here

I think the Aggies don’t feel at all comfortable culturally in the Pac 16, and they feel they’ll be just as well off financially in the SEC and start to forge their own identity separate from being the anti-Texas. I think most Texas fans recognize that. It’s just seeing the whole throwing-middle-fingers-at-Texas-while-walking-out-the-door routine all over again that irritates/amuzes us.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Curious...

…why do you (as presumably an outsider in this particular sub-skirmish) see this as a bad move for A&M?

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Pac-16 would pay just as much if not more, and travel would actually be easier in a division that included Texas and the Oklahoma schools. It’s a better academic conference, which should matter to the university, and competition is more than high enough to maintain credibility. Plus, Texas’ ability to throw its weight around is diminished in a league that has major viewership bases in states other than Texas.

If the Pac-16 happens, then A&M will be in a tougher conference that doesn’t pay them any more, and other schools will continue to compete with Texas in an environment in which Texas’ weight is largely held in check by other lucrative markets.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Basically,

If the Pac-16 happens with Oklahoma, OSU, Texas, and Mizzou. Then Oklahoma could wind up sharing a regional network with Texas that has very broad national appeal and would be stupidly lucrative inside the Pac-16’s larger package. Texas and Oklahoma could become bigger than they’ve ever been, and that’s That’s a deal A&M could have had, but refused to listen to so that it could forge its own identity in the SEC. Oklahoma could wind up with exactly the relationship A&M always wanted with Texas, but was never able to get.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

FYI, I think politics dictates it'd almost have to be TT, not Mizzou

Good thoughts, though.

"History lesson: Everything bad that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the South. Everything good that has happened to Texas has been due to its association with the West." -- Paul Burka, Senior Executive Editor of Texas Monthly

by Hopkins Horn on Sep 5, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's probably right

but if I were Texas I’d be pushing for Rice. They’d make a great academic peer, and they’d have no problem never being on primetime on their own regional network. Sharing a network with Texas Tech is all give and no take for Texas. Texas can actually benefit from aligning itself with Rice and they wouldn’t have to give up as much to do it. Rice may take an even split of the money, but they’ll never complain about Texas hogging the spotlight.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you're going with Gandhi's tactics here?

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win?

Pretty sure y’all are doing it in the opposite order.

by Albino Tornado on Sep 6, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe Kansas is smarter than we give them credit for

They may be banking on Texas fans not being able to watch the game at home (a fairly safe bet), so a bunch of Horns will head north. Those fans that can’t get into the stadium (and I’m sure plenty of Burnt Orange should be able to get into the game), can at least hit a sports bar and watch it locally (where a local station in Kansas will still be allowed to broadcast the game). Lots of money for the Lawrence economy.

Or not…

by Wolvie on Sep 5, 2011 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

"The University of Kansas: Now a joint-venture of the University of Texas and the Disney Corporation."

Really, I think Kansas figured the conference was dead anyway and was taking the cash while they still could. But, that was before the emergency conference call, though. They may be less willing to play on the LHN as part of an ongoing conference.

At least I hope that’s the case, because with one team controlling the finances of its supposed competitor it’s difficult to distinguish the Longhorns-Jayhawks relationship from the Globetrotters-Generals relationship. But, if not I’ve got their new marketing campaign all figured out.

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

But, but...BASKETBALL.

"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC

by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 5, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

To be clear

I don’t think Beebe’s move was plotted out, but it certainly is convenient for Disney and Texas. It definitely was the plan to have the Rice game be widely unavailable and have fans complain to try an extract a higher price.

Exploiting other universities if necessary was also definitely part of the plan. The intent to push for a conference game is in the contract, and their first offer was to Texas Tech. They basically told Tech that they’d give them a bunch of money, plus they’d put some other Tech games on the LHN. Then they might get Tech fans to call and complain about not being able to pay Texas to watch Tech play New Mexico or whomever. Tech wisely refused. Kansas, however….

by BigFatScott on Sep 5, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, because UT is such a shoddy institution of higher learning

As compared to, oh, Nebraska. Man, you guys sure have it over us!

After all, we’re only ranked a disappointing #13 in USNews’ Top Public Schools, whereas Nebraska is … um… 47th? Hey! That list must be inverted or some such, where 47 finishes ahead of 13! Yeah, that’s the ticket.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public/spp+50

by iamjackburton on Sep 6, 2011 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Excellent red herring

thanks for not addressing the main pint of the comment.

by SccrHskr on Sep 8, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dang!

After reading the headline, I came on here to pile on Bush!

And, instead, a LHN fight broke out. Some good reading, though.

My thoughts: the whole LHN was born out of a pie-in-the-sky notion that ONE college football fan base could actually demand and support their own private little network.

It was preposperous to begin with, and has become laughable now. Lick your wounds, Bevo. Time to move on and decide if you want to start playing fair with the remnants of the Big XII, move to the Pac, or go indy.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 5, 2011 10:13 PM CDT reply actions  

I know.

I wanted to hate on Bush too! But I made the comment when I saw this on facebook that it shouldn’t be turned into a political debate.

Full disclosure: I’m a no good dirty liberal.

LTC Kilgore: How you feelin' Jimmy?
Door Gunner: Like a mean motherfucker sir!

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. -Hunter S. Thompson

by Look_A_Red_Squirrel on Sep 5, 2011 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dont' rat on me,

but me too.

Are you joining us this saturday on the thread? I miss your wit.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 5, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm gonna try.

But, I’ll be at work. I know how you all love my sharp tounge and quick wit. Its been a long off season.

LTC Kilgore: How you feelin' Jimmy?
Door Gunner: Like a mean motherfucker sir!

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. -Hunter S. Thompson

by Look_A_Red_Squirrel on Sep 5, 2011 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's one problem with this statement as a way to mock Texas
The whole LHN was born out of a pie-in-the-sky notion that ONE college football fan base could actually demand and support their own private little network.

It was preposperous to begin with, and has become laughable now.

Nebraska was planning its own network, too, before it left the Big 12.

/justsayin

by Cheeseandcorn on Sep 6, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was not aware of that.

I still think it’s a preposterous idea, that one school out of…how many colleges and universities in this country…would think the demand would be there to support it’s own network.

If NU was considering it, then it was an unworkable idea. Conference networks make sense, not individual ones.

They're 18 to 22...how perfect were you at that age?
The Power of Red begins with the Passion of Walk-Ons.

by redvalley on Sep 6, 2011 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh yeah,

Perlman even said that Neb was as far along at UT was on their network, before all the Big Ten business. On the network’s value, I dunno. Maybe they are not worth $10M per year, but if Neb had its own network, I would sign up and pay (to a point). I would imagine many Neb. households would do the same.

You know, 5 years ago, everyone was saying that a conference network is a unworkable idea as well, and look where we are.

Google's homepage celebrates too much shit.

by meatybob on Sep 7, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I thought they studied it along with UT

but decided a conference network would be better. UT, with a larger population (i.e., more cable households) ran with ithe idea, offering a fraction of the LHN to TAM.

by rogerja on Sep 7, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I've seen 1/2 the expenses, about 1/3 the revenue

And then Texas has the gall to call them out, saying “Well, we TRIED to go into a network with them. But THEY said no! Don’t blame us!”

by Wolvie on Sep 7, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't believe Nebraska fans are calling UT fans "half-breeds"

Wow. That takes some major leap there, buddy. I mean, sure, you could probably throw that at the Aggies, even the Pirates, but Longhorns? From Austin? You gotta stretch it pretty wide to get there, my friend.

by iamjackburton on Sep 6, 2011 12:09 AM CDT reply actions  

why is it more applicable to aggies than longhorns?

Also I did point out sometime later that I didn’t really believe that and it was just bitterness talking.

But I am curious, how can you not believe someone calls longhorns half-breeds, and in the same breath you say it does apply to the aggies?

by Fake Pelini on Sep 6, 2011 7:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

You've been called worse, and probably by better.

It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.

by nateforchiefs on Sep 6, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks! Its one of my favorite lines

And I hope you know no ill will was intended towards you or jack with that. It was meant as a group slur, not a single person.

It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.

by nateforchiefs on Sep 6, 2011 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Two options here

Keep the LHN and go independent or join the Pac Million and leave your ego (aka LHN) at the door. The choice is your Bevo.

Either way, no more Dan Beebe!

by BledRed on Sep 6, 2011 12:48 AM CDT reply actions  

This exact choice was posed in a thread on BON last week

and posters there refused to answer and insisted that other options existed. I’m mean, it doesn’t violate the laws of physics for Texas to join the ACC or to have a number of other schools (ND, Michigan, USC, Florida, whomever) forsake all of their historic relationships to break off and form some kind of national conference following Texas’ lead, but I wouldn’t call those options realistic. To refuse to engage the choice between what are far and away the most likely options because they could imagine an alternate universe where every one cared as little about anything other than money as Texas does shows just how out of touch this fan base is with reality.

by BigFatScott on Sep 6, 2011 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno if I agree that its a failure for Texas

They are promised a ton of cash for this. And really, is the LHN really different that PPV when it comes to broadcasting games? The $30 we would have to pay to see Middle Tenn State wasn’t exactly inviting.

Google's homepage celebrates too much shit.

by meatybob on Sep 6, 2011 9:04 AM CDT reply actions  

Difference being, only Nebraska fans had to pay

In a regular broadcast cable channel, each subscriber…or at least each subscriber paying for a certain tier…pays for the channel. Whether you want the LHN or not.

It was also an independent channel. So if the opposing team wanted to watch, they presumably had a PPV option as well, but they weren’t listening to Nebraska homers broadcast the game. With the LHN, you would.

by Wolvie on Sep 6, 2011 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, but at the same time

The Big XII school will have to agree to play on the LHN, so its not like they don’t have a choice. If the school want to insure that its fans can see the game, then don’t agree to have the game on the LHN. And Rice isn’t in the conference, so if Rice fans can’t see their games, I doubt that really hurts the Big XII.

I dunno, hard for me to blame UT for this. All the member schools agreed on the 3rd tier rights deal, Texas is just doing what they said they were going to do 14 months ago.

Google's homepage celebrates too much shit.

by meatybob on Sep 7, 2011 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

But part of the LHN contract says they won't appear on another conference/school network

So, these Texas guys that say “Hey, don’t get mad at us. You can have your own network too. We got ours, you go get yours.” So…say every Big 12 school has a similar network to the LHN. Come conference game time, it’ll go dark. Because you can’t show the other conference teams on your network.

That’s the real kicker to me. Not so much that Texas has their own network (and failing at it), but then it prevents them from being on a potential Big 12 Network. Your biggest draw (or 2nd biggest draw, if you want to argue OU is #1) will NEVER be on your conference network.

by Wolvie on Sep 7, 2011 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Big difference...

…is that only two cable operators in the entire country are even offering LHN to their subscribers at this point. That’s a massive failure. More people paid the $30 for Nebraska PPV’s than watched LHN last Saturday. And let’s not compare it to the Big Ten Network, who had over 250 providers including DirecTV for week one.

It’s true that LHN has only been available for a week, so pronouncing it a failure could be seen as premature. But look at the damage it has caused. Texas and ESPN are already trying to look for the eject button.

If Texas and ESPN aren’t going to see this thing through, why should anybody else?

by Husker Mike on Sep 6, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

How Texas could right the wrongs

Kill the LHN. Apologize to the other Big XII schools (Especially A&M and Oklahoma) for the recent selfish and arrogant ways. Fire Powers. Vote to fire Dan Beebe. Vote to start an equally sharing Big XII conference TV network. Get Colorado State or Houston to join the conference. Pray Oklahoma does not leave. Pray A&M reverses their notice. Look forward to a very successful future for the Big XII.

The solution to the Texas predicament had to be said, but we all know it will never happen.

by BledRed on Sep 6, 2011 7:36 PM CDT reply actions  

I have an idea on how to get the other schools away from Texas.

Have the remaining 9 members all leave and then start their own conference. Invite SMU, Houston and one other school (Toledo, Wichita State, whoever it doesn’t really matter) to join and then have your own 12 team conference minus texas. The conference will most likely get their automatic qualifying status, Oklahoma and Ok State can go to the northern division and beat up on them every year, A&M will be away from texas and will be able to beat up on the southern schools, the northern schools wont be left out to dry and texas gets the big F#ck Y*# from all the schools they tried to screw over. ESPN and texas are left to have a two member circle jerk and commiserate with each other over their shared visions turned sour. If only I had a magic or a genie lamp…

It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.

by nateforchiefs on Sep 6, 2011 11:21 PM CDT reply actions  

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