Has OU and the rest of the Big XII lost all it's leverage against Texas? They still have one more missile they can fire.
by Aaron Musfeldt on Sep 21, 2011 10:55 AM CDT
in Conference Realignment
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PrintWith the PAC-12 releasing a statement saying that they have decided not to expand at this time, what happens next? Does the Big XII just move on, live with it and hope things get better? Oklahoma started making demands yesterday about changes they would like to see if they are to stay in the Big XII. With the Sooners losing their opportunity for the PAC-12, has Oklahoma lost all of it's leverage against Texas? Do they just have to bend over and take it from the Longhorns now?
Things can change in the Texas Conference. They can get better. Stability can be achieved. It's very simple really. Remake the the Texas Conference and call it the "Big XII Conference."
Vote Texas out.
Texas seems to be holding all the cards, but the Longhorn Network is like holding the King of Hearts in a game of Hearts". It's likely going to win you a trick, but if you want to shoot the moon, it will burn you if you don't also hold the Ace of Hearts. What if the remaining Big XII teams kicked Texas out? That would leave:
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
Iowa State
Missouri
Baylor
Texas Tech
TV execs wouldn't like to see the Longhorns go. There would likely be less $$$ for the Big XII because of this move. From an academic standpoint, universities like to be associated with UT. Recruiting might also take a hit. But stability could be achieved. Revenue sharing could be equal. The conference could create their own conference network. It would be easier to invite other schools to join the league if the cancer was gone. And most importantly, it's really the only leverage move the remaining Big XII schools have left over Texas.
The PAC-12 would not take them.
"After careful review we have determined that it is in the best interests of our member institutions, student-athletes and fans to remain a 12-team conference," Scott said in the statement. "While we have great respect for all of the institutions that have contacted us, and certain expansion proposals were financially attractive, we have a strong conference structure and culture of equality that we are committed to preserve."
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I'm not even a Big XII fan
but I joined here so I can rec this.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Sep 21, 2011 11:08 AM CDT reply actions
A couple years too late.
If Nebraska and Texas A&M were still in the picture, it would be an unfortunate, but ultimately necessary, amputation. But, the Big 8 with Baylor and Texas Tech swapped in for Nebraska and Colorado feels like it goes a little too far backwards.
Although, the more I think about it, the better it sounds. If they can get BYU and TCU, maybe it’s fine.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Sep 21, 2011 11:21 AM CDT reply actions
Do the league by-laws allow for that, though?
Editor and Ombusdman, Voodoo Five, South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
What they could do is all quit at once
And then make a brand new conference minus Texa$, plus TCU (they’re rethinking this Big East thing) SMU and Boise State. Texas is left holding the bag, ESPN gets screwed and everyone that deserves to be happy is.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Sep 21, 2011 12:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
But Craig James wins.
We can’t have that.
Plus the “new conference” wouldn’t have AQ status.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
A conference with OK, Okie State, TCU and Boise State surely would get AQ status
And Texas wouldn’t, and thats the most important thing.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Sep 21, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but that means at least two seasons without AQ status.
BCS reviews aren’t until 2014.
And Texas would get in on the Notre Dame rule.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
true true
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Sep 21, 2011 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Sounds like something Ben Folds sang about once
“Citing artistic indifferences, the band broke up in May … and then in June reformed without me.”
by Cheeseandcorn on Sep 21, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno about that.
I seem to remember that when the 16-team WAC broke up into the MWC they had to leave half the teams behind so as not to create the impression they were just kicking teams out. Don’t know if that was a league rule though.
There’s also the small issue of the BCS auto-bid remaining with the old, defunct league.
Editor and Ombusdman, Voodoo Five, South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
well the real rumors....
wyoming to the SEC (i mean, are they really any worse than vandy?)
Cal Tech, Texas Tech, Louisiana Tech to the ACC (to join VA Tech and Georgia Tech) in addition to FCS Tennessee Tech
KC Chiefs to the Big East (I mean, are they really any better than TCU?)
New Confernce Big Jesus: ND, St. Francis, Presbyterian, Sacred Heart, Holy Cross
The Big 12
can survive…but OU did get this right,FIRE DAN BEEBE. He sucks
I'm with you Jon.
I don’t see how adding both boise state and TCU is so unrealistic that it hasn’t even been a discussion until you brought it up here.
by Fake Pelini on Sep 21, 2011 12:07 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Why they didn't do this last year is beyond me.
I bet between Boise State and TCU, they would have found someone with the balls to rally around to say no to LHN.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Never thought of it this way
Kick Texas out, add Boise State and TCU and you’ve got a fine conference. Maybe you could add Houston or SMU to help increase your chances for recruiting in Texas and BYU just to make the Big 12 actually 12 schools again.
Look me up on youtube sometime...if you're really bored.
One more thought
From ESPN.com
The source also said the presidents may at least inquire to see if Texas A&M would be willing to stay under new conditions. That would seem like a reach, based on the Aggies’ public desire to join the SEC and the SEC’s vote to accept the Aggies as a 13th member.
Is it really that big of a reach that Texas A&M would consider staying? Everyone knows that when they go to the SEC they are kissing their football relevance goodbye, and they would be blind if they didn’t see it too. And what if Texas was gone? The conference could keep A&M, get TCU, Houston, or SMU and Boise State…that Big 12 conference would be looking pretty good.
Look me up on youtube sometime...if you're really bored.
But Aggie would still have to come to work with Bevo EVERY DAY.
Since Aggie is just a little bit fed up with Bevo’s stories of his nightly conquests, a new corner office and a sweet parking spot are not going to be enough to keep him from moving to his new job at the SEC. Not even firing the HR director who refused to listen to his complaints will be enough to fold Aggie back in.
Nope, Aggie is gone, chasing the dollars and Bevo-less work environment, just like his bros Herbie and Ralphie the year before.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Then Aggie might come rushing back and buy a round of beer for everyone.
I just don’t see them firing Bevo. Him and Norman are the only ones getting ESPN in the door.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Texa$ Holding All the Cards, Eh?
If there’s one positive that comes out of all this chaos it’s this: judging by some of the blog comments I’ve been reading from other conferences, Bevo has been exposed ONCE AND FOR ALL as the arrogant, greedy, power-mongering bastards that they are!!
Paddle faster, I hear banjos!!
True
Reading the blogs, regional and national, Texa$$ is being presented as the self-centered, entitled jerkwads Osborn knew they were 15 years ago. Funny now how Nebraska, that “traitorous, tradition-killing bunch of greedy yahoos that couldn’t beat Texas” are now being lauded as foresighted.
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"
by UltimaRatioRegum on Sep 21, 2011 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions
We're still at fault though, because Bill Byrne and Steve Pederson were for some of the things that destroyed the conference in the first place.
TOM OSBORNE AND PARTIAL QUALIFIERS.
Rabble rabble rabble.
/Reads Wyoming post and concentrates on our new, so far less dramatic home.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, We Aren't Blameless
But we aren’t the primary cause, either. Nebraska was just the only one with the cajones to stand up for themselves, and then finally walk the talk.
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"
by UltimaRatioRegum on Sep 21, 2011 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey, Colorado walked out the front door too.
But certainly for the latest round of tomfoolery, Nebraska cannot be held accountable.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Beebe was OU's guy.
Texas submitted a proposal to split tv revenue equally over 12 months ago. The longhorn network is a separate matter altogether. The big 12 can have a network if the member schools want one. Currently each school controls their own teir 3 broadcasting rights. Nebraska, was instrumental in setting this up when the big 8 and the SWC merged. The current issue are more about each school wanting to find a bigger pile of money to role around in and that included Nebraska. Good for them.
Except apparently the conference or other school network can not have Texas on it
Which may be fine…until you get to conference games…which was one of the complaints that started this whole thing again.
Well, they said they were looking for a way to commit to the conference.
Committing media rights (whatever tiers are floating around) to the conference’s discretion is a good way to do that.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 21, 2011 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
as a diehard sooner fan
I never blamed the huskers and have taken up for you. You don’t have to be a genius to know who is to blame for all of this. I for one hope you OWN your new shiny conference and enjoy the boatload of money. Wish we were there!
by IBleedCrimsonandCream on Sep 22, 2011 12:04 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
But if OU came, Wisconsin would never come back west.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 22, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Wisconsin won't be moving "west"
They’re not East and West. I wish they were. But then we’d have NE, IA, MN, WI, IL, and NW.
Great post
Bottom line is OU and co better have some leverage doing into any meeting with UT now after PAC said no; I don’t see UT giving into demands without consequences.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Sep 21, 2011 10:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
we have no leverage
by IBleedCrimsonandCream on Sep 22, 2011 12:06 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
Could have always had Slive on line 2,
and now Bebee is gone, but it will be interesting how accommodating UT is on those other things.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
the leverage
Oklahoma has is in getting the other conference members to agree with them.
Nebraska was on the shit end of the stick for a lot of 11-1 votes. Now it should be Texas’ turn. Part of that is getting rid of Dan Beebe. Then you guys can do the rest.
Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
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by Jon Johnston on Sep 22, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Move to MWC and get AQ status in 2014.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 22, 2011 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Really?????
I dont know why everyone is griping about how texas is power hungary and greedy… Look we are doing what is best for us…Is it our fault that ESPN chose us to do the LHN…Is it our fault that we bring the most money into the conference…. Is it our fault that we recruit better talent than the other schools… Come on really …ask yourselfs this " If you worked harder than a fellow employee Should you both get paid the same amt of money?….yeah didnt think so…This is not a fair world …and all you jokers who are crying about us (UT) doing this and doing that …look at yourself and ask what you would do if you were in the same situation.
by Fernando Serrano on Sep 22, 2011 9:48 AM CDT reply actions
I have no problem with a person keeping what they earn.
However, schools join conferences in order to help each other out; to establish connections and networks. The Longhorns owe their success to both their administrative decisions and also to the rest of their conference members who help contribute to the success of their institution.
Ohio State and Michigan aren’t who they are without the B1G. Stanford and Cal aren’t who they are without the PAC-12. etc. etc. At some point you need to realize that there are contributions coming to Texas from other schools in their conference. These contributions can be athletic or academic. You don’t achieve everything on your own and Texas has failed to realize this. You must not remember when the Texas schools needed a home in the early 90’s.
UT isn’t where it is just because they are UT. They are who they are because of everyone else around them. That can be applied to ever school in the country.
In the deed, the glory.
Corn Nation!
Follow @Aaron_Musfeldt
by Aaron Musfeldt on Sep 22, 2011 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
+1, well said
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Sep 22, 2011 12:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If you have no problem, then why is this an issue?
Do you really think that Iowa St and K State aren’t being helped out, as you say? All of the BCS riches by winning Big 12 teams were shared with the rest of conference. What else do you want? And do you really believe that Ohio St does not pull in more revenue than Minnesota or Northwestern? Take off the red shades and look at the LHN as a side job that UT can leverage for extra income. Now if I lived in your neighborhood, and I paid all state, federal, and local taxes and was then asked to hand over all of my side business money to all of my neighbors, would you think that is fair? Of course not. Do you cry foul to the IRS because my boat, car, or house is bigger than yours? Especially when each school (neighbor) has the ability (and the freedom-key point) to start their own network or do whatever they want for extra cash. Is it our fault that OU tried to start a network and found out their brand has no cachet? Let’s be clear here – not all schools were made equals. Some schools have more incentive to create income or are simply blessed with circumstances that allow them to generate more wealth. Do you even know that some of the money generated by the LHN is going back to academics to account for the budget shortfall in state funding? What a concept! For once, athletics is paying for academics! But no one hears that aspect. It’s always those greedy tsips. Granted, the Texas AD plays hardball. But is it that wrong to negotiate to keep what you think is yours? Would you not do the same for your sons or daughters if you had the chance? All of this talk about equal revenue sharing wreaks of communism, and it’s a pity that these sentiments are coming from the heartland.
Because i have no problem with a PERSON keeping what they earn.
If you read my response it dealt with what the purpose of a conference is.
If Texas wants to go at it alone and they make a billion dollars a year, more power to em.
But if you are going to be a member of an organization that is put together for the purpose of bringing entities together to help each other out (i.e. a conference), then you defeat the purpose of that organization when you separate yourself from them.
And don’t give me this communism crap. The major pillars of our society are based on “socialist” programs. Police, fire departments, and the public education are all “socialist” programs. I’m pretty sure that they have made our country a better place over time.
In the deed, the glory.
Corn Nation!
Follow @Aaron_Musfeldt
by Aaron Musfeldt on Sep 22, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I would think the purpose of the conference depends on the charter
If you look at how the conference started, the agreement was to share the first 50% of the revenue. NU didn’t have to agree to it. If you read my first sentence, you did not answer how Iowa St and Kansas St aren’t being helped out. Last I heard Iowa St. is putting up a nice jumbotron. Sounds like they are hard up for cash. I’m ok with discussing the merits of socialism as it refers to a “relatively” equal distribution of wealth. But all this talk about equal revenue sharing is ridiculous when you know that Iowa St does not pull in their fair share.
LHN would be a side-job if it was only carrying Texas-centric coaching shows and Olympic sports.
The moment you start putting revenue sports on that network, it becomes more than just a side job.
And the moment you put a conference game on there, you start stealing from the neighborhood.
"I did dumb things." - Tim Beck, Nebraska's new OC
by Salt Creek and Stadium on Sep 22, 2011 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, show me where other schools don't have the same option.
That’s the beauty of the conference. You can own your third-tier television rights. It’s allowed per the charter. What’s the problem? NU missed a golden opportunity just so they can “share the wealth”. Jeez, you would think the home of Buffet would be all about making money. Who the hell likes to share? I see why this country is losing ground to China.
Right after the deal is inked, start planning on going Indy
UT already makes a lot more without it the most and the extra 12 mill on top of that only makes things less stable—I don’t blame anyone for doing it, but it is not a move to make if you are going to stay in a stable conf much less an unstable one like that.
Reporter: What would you say a Greg Studrawa offense is like? Stud:
"Attack and be very physical…fly around…attacking, come after you and come after you and come after you…." Me: I love this answer.
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Sep 22, 2011 12:23 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Typical Longhorn; Lack Of Humility
I’m beginning to think it was the Univer$ity of Texa$ that Carly Simon was talking about in “You’re So Vain.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js8YE7uZFUY
...“Well, I hear you went up to Saratoga,
And your horse naturally won.
Then you flew your Learjet up to Nova Scotia
To watch the total eclipse of the sun.
And you’re where you should be all the time,
And if you’re not, you’re with
Some underworld spy
Or the wife of a close friend
Wife of a close friend”…
Paddle faster, I hear banjos!!
Don't Kid Yourself!!
There is not a Big 10 or Big 12 school that would not except $300M from ESPN to start there own Network. Not one!!! Texas issue is that should have stepped in when ESPN stated that they would show HS games. No one had an issue until ESPN opened there mouth. Also, Beebe was OU’s selection and not UT’s. OU and UT are both guilty of greed and it’s cost a 100 yr rivalry with A&M and our annual win over Nebraska (had to mention that, sorry). OU painted themselves in a corner by opening there mouth before they secured the green light. Because of this it has backfired and they look like Texas little brother again. I hate this because I want the Big 12 to stay together. It should be equal across the board except for the Longhorn Network (no HS games or highlights) and if OU or OK State want there own network so be it. Hookem!!
There is not a Big 10 or Big 12 school that would not except $300M from ESPN to start there own Network. Not one!!!
No. But if every one of their century-old rivals started running in the other direction, they might get a clue that the idea was flawed somehow.
Editor and Ombusdman, Voodoo Five, South Florida Bulls SBN Blog
This is a poorly reasoned article
If Texas gets the boot, the Big XII would have to renegotiate TV contracts.
Without Texas and Texas A&M, you’ve given up DFW and Houston, two of the top 10 TV markets in the world. You’ve also lost San Antonio and Austin.
The leading markets are then St. Louis and Kansas City. With those as markets as the biggest sell you have, a TV rights deal anywhere in the ballpark of what was agreed to last year wouldn’t be possible.
This is a proposition that would never be considered.
Ultimatly the LHN is very Short-sided
Texas gets around 15 million per year on their LHN deal with ESPN. Each University gets about 23 million (which should be 25 M now with Nebraska) per year with the BTN. But lets for instance go with the low ball estimate of 23 million per year for 20 years.
So looking at the math
15m per year for 20 years = 300 million (texas)
23 m per year for 20 years = 460 million (BIG TEN NEBRASKA)
25M per year for 20 years = 500 million
The problem Hook’em Horns is that by staying apart EPSN divides, conquers and short-changes each school. What school wouldn’t want 300m alone. But given a choice of 300m alone vs 500 m together, is that really an option. Texas with its power could have made a conference network for the benefits of all and get upward min. of 18m per easily. It’s shortsided and you made a deal with the devil of ESPN. The Big Ten whole reason for its own network was because it tried to short-changed them. Their better off today because they had the vision of sticking together. ESPN is sadly using UT as a pawn and bad guy. UT did what was ultimately better in the short-term to the detriment of long-term plans and their conference. Perception is everything, but no amount of money can clean a perceived bad reputation.
The best UT can do is to act like the good guy and literally give the LHN network as the foundation of a complete BIG 12 conference network. Throwing the whole undervalued 300m contract out the window and getting paid together and equally on a conference scale.
Just laughable
This is utterly ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of the even most basic elements of the situation. What kind of TV contract do you imagine the remaining Big XII schools would get without Texas? You think OU would stay in this conference you are imagining? Adding Boise and TCU? Kicking out the most profitable program (by a LONG shot) in the conference would have a short term negative impact? It would be the end of the Big XII and I doubt the conference leaders would vote to destroy the very conference they are leading. And the notion that Texas would be left out of the BCS at some point without making the choice to go Independent (ie keeping the network at all costs) is just laughable. They aren’t keeping the LHN because they have to, they are keeping it because they want to. They can opt out at any time by joining a conference that doesn’t allow it. The contract stipulates that conference bylaws on media contracts supersede the the LHN’s provisions. So they just join the PAC and let the network go. ESPN is on the hook for the LHN, Texas isn’t. Sorry to display that old Texas arrogance that in this instance happens to be true, any conference in the nation will take Texas if they agree to compromise on the LHN and play by their rules, so unless Indepence is a viable option, they wouldn’t elect to keep the network at the price to their program’s competitive viability. They would tell ESPN “sorry, didn’t work out,” and join a conference thus negating their commitment to ESPN and the LHN. Revenue shared in the PAC is really good money. Not so much in the Big XII. Oh, and then your “stand up to them” conference watches OU, OSU and Texas Tech pack their bags and leave with them.
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