10 Year Rivals Recruiting Rankings Proves ... Irrelevence
Rivals released their "Top 25 Recruiting Schools" list today, and there are multiple ways to look at the numbers, but in the end, when you look at the numbers and factor out some "known quantities", the link between recruiting rankings and results on the field doesn't really stand up. Ten of the schools in the top 25 of "recruiting" the last ten years have significantly underwhelmed on the field, with a winning percentage ranked much lower than their recruiting would indicate. Ten schools not on the Rivals list did show up in the top 25 schools in terms of winning percentage over the last decade, meaning that, well, the link is hard to fathom.
If you look at the top five, you could theoretically try to make a correlation: Southern Cal, Florida, and Texas all have had great success in both recruiting and on the field, but take a step back. All three schools sit in talent-rich areas, so it's tough for them NOT to have a good recruiting class. Look back ten years ago at USC and Texas; both schools were considered top recruiting schools, yet both languished on the field. So it wasn't recruiting that improved those schools, it was coaching. Both schools have always recruited well, no matter who was the coach. (Can you say John Mackovic?) But what about Florida, you say? They were good in the 90's, so that disproves my theory, right? Not really. Florida was a really good team under Spurrier, not so good under Ron Zook, and unbelievably good under Urban Meyer. All three recruited well. But there's a reason why Steve Spurrier and Urban Meyer are considered coaching legends, and that Ron Zook is considered, well, the Zooker.
Big Red Network took the perspective that the rankings are just fine, it's just the coaches that underperformed. I suppose you could look at it that way, if there evidence the recruiting rankings had merit. We see this all the time: some of the Rivals top players turn out to be great, sometimes they are busts. It's about a 50/50 split. Does anybody still believe that Harrison Beck was a four-star pro-style quarterback? How about Marlon Lucky as the five-star "next Adrian Peterson" We saw this same situation in 2007 when Terry Bowden compared the recruiting rankings with the 2007 final results.
This isn't to suggest that it doesn't take talent to win football games; that's absolutely false. The question is, do services like Rivals accurately rate talent? Sometimes they do; sometimes they don't. The relationship simply isn't there, except in ancedotal instances. In the 2010 NFL draft, 18 four-and-five star recruits went in the first round. 13 were two or three star recruits. One wasn't even ranked by the recruiting services. Everywhere you look, the results of recruiting services are the same: inconclusive.
I suppose, in the end, it is the coaches that actually did underperform. Some coaches, like Nebraska's Bill Callahan, made the same bad calls on talent that the recruiting services made. In the end, they paid the price with their jobs. However, the recruiting services don't seem to pay the price; they still get more and more people to buy into their services.
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The latest Superbowl MVP wasn't even offered a Division I scholarship coming out of HS
Recruiting rankings are a crap shoot. The drive and determination of a motivated player can overcome the greater talent of a lazy player.
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
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damn...
I was honestly going to do something like what Rivals did next summer. Well, maybe there will be a template where I can get info easier and have less research to do.
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…correlating recruitment rankings to draft position or comparing the rankings of different recruiting services.
That Would Be A Great Read
Particularly the rankings by different services – right now they are so different that it makes the whole idea look no better than a crapshoot.
"What everybody echoes or in silence passes by as true today may turn out to be falsehood tomorrow, mere smoke of opinion." Thoreau
by UltimaRatioRegum on Jul 12, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
That's a completely incorrect interpretation of the data
The question is, do services like Rivals accurately rate talent? Sometimes they do; sometimes they don’t. The relationship simply isn’t there, except in ancedotal instances. In the 2010 NFL draft, 18 four-and-five star recruits went in the first round. 13 were two or three star recruits. One wasn’t even ranked by the recruiting services. Everywhere you look, the results of recruiting services are the same: inconclusive.
Take a look at how many four and five star athletes there are relative to how many two and three star (or unranked) athletes there are. Four and five stars are a tiny percentage of FBS athletes. That they’re nearly half of the first round tells you that the recruiting services are pretty accurate, not that they’re terrible.
I have to agree.
While recruiting does not equal development, it does provide a starting point. An analogy would be a chef – the ingredients he starts with limits what he can make, but he still has to develop those ingredients into a tasty meal to be successful. Give me the best ingredients in the world and the result would still be a call to the local pizza parlor.
Considering the other factors, there is a strong correlation between recruitment ranking and performance… but it is just 1 of many factors.
It depends on who's ranking the ingredients...
Just because someone says that something is the best doesn’t mean it’s the best. For example, a few years ago, Walmart ran an ad campaign to promote the steaks in their stores.
Sorry, but I’m not buying steaks at Walmart. I don’t care what Walmart claims, but I’m not buying steaks from Walmart. I don’t believe Walmart’s claims, just like I don’t believe the claims of these recruiting services.
I prefer to believe what the people who have real skin in the game think: the coaches who do the recruiting.
by Husker Mike on Jul 12, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
In looking at the college offers an athlete receives...
…it is based on the coaches opinions. I believe Rivals has this as the starting point in their evaluation. Simultaneously the value of an offer is based on the ability of the programs to attract top players.
I don’t see enough proof there is a regional subjective bias, but they may have overlooked some biases in the calculated portion.
Programs that are more likely to sign athletes early diminish have a lower ranking because these athletes are not likely to receive a lot of offers after they sign.
There is a difference from program to program in the number of offers made, which impacts the number of athletes being credited for the excessive number of offers.
There is a difference from program to program in the number of athletes signed. The services limit the number of recruits used to calculate the program’s ranking, but this is analogous to playing 5 card or 6 card hands in poker.
All 3 of these can be regional in nature, varying with the competition a program has for its athletes, the number of programs in the region, and even conference rules for signing.
You are being generous...
…when you consider the recruiting services “pretty accurate”. When you say that about half of the recruiting services rankings are correct, that’s not a very good number. Unless you are comparing it to a baseball player, where having success 30% of the time is considered pretty good, of course.
And it’s not like this is really rocket science. You could come up with just as accurate of recruiting rankings just by comparing the number of offers a player gets and weighting those offers by the relative success of the programs making the offers. An offer from USC counts more than an offer from Baylor, which counts for more than an offer from Arkansas State.
Am I not giving the recruiting services any credit? You could argue that. But I would argue that some fans give recruiting services way too much credit, especially during early February, which is the worst part of the year in college football.
I agree with your recruitment ranking system
Many services incorporate this type of recursive calculation in addition to the subjective analysis of their scouts.
A comparison between the purely objective and objective + subjective rankings to the NFL draft could be used to reveal if the subjective components are accurate, inaccurate, or even needed.
The only thing I would add is an additional weight to the offer based on the number of offers extended and the number of recruits signed.
Recruiting services can't evaluate head or heart
which is why they’re prone to failure. I can name for you any number of “blue-chip” academic types coming out of high school who flaked out or otherwise didn’t live up to their potential. Does that mean they weren’t smart, or that there’s so much functional randomness in three-plus years that the model is at best loosely-predictive.
We can’t accurately predict weather more than 14 days in advance. Why would you think you can predict the futures of 18 year old kids 3-plus years out?
by Albino Tornado on Jul 12, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fans love to think that recruiting doesn't matter
Except when they’re obsessing about recruiting. But college football is a lot more about recruiting and motivation than Xs and Os (which is why teams that recruit well usually run boring offensive and defensive schemes, and the crazy stuff is done by teams that recruit poorly).
Also, note that you’re trying to predict the behavior of 18-23 year old college guys (who are often at a school they could not get in to if they were not a star athlete in a revenue sport). Projecting this correctly half the time is a major achievement.
Recruiting is important...
It’s the RANKINGSthat aren’t important. You have to find the right players to fit what you are looking to do, and coaches need to look at the entire player, not just speed/size/ability. They have to look at potential and the mental side of things; can they adjust to the demands of playing college football, can they handle academics, can they learn more sophisticated systems rather than just depend on instinct and raw ability.
Rivals, Scout, 24/7, and the rest really can’t evaluate all of that…so they don’t. And so you get a half-a$$ed ranking that is pretty much irrelevant.
by Husker Mike on Jul 12, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
You Said it Before I Could
No one would say recruiting is not important, while the gist of the article is that rankings are not important. An idea I happen to agree with.
"What everybody echoes or in silence passes by as true today may turn out to be falsehood tomorrow, mere smoke of opinion." Thoreau
by UltimaRatioRegum on Jul 12, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
They do mean something...
…but not everything. I agree that it’s hard to measure the capacity for success (and failure) out of high school (and as a sidenote, it’s hard even out of college. how many ‘busts’ are their each year in the draft?). Still, to say that 50% is bad, then you’re missing out on the real statistics. Kind of like getting mad at schools for graduating athletes @ 30% clips when the school average is 25%…
Here’s what I mean (and where ProveIt was going):
120 FBS Schools getting 85 scholarships or 25 or so a year
126 FCS Schools getting 63 scholarships or 15 or so a year
(Ignoring Div II, III, JuCo, NJCAA, etc. because the numbers wouldn’t be close to fair)
That means that in Div 1, there are roughly 4,890 football scholarships given per year. If there are only 150 players who are even considered 4* and 5* athletes, and of those, 15 are drafted in the first round alone, you are looking at a 1/10 chance of being that first round pick. Consider the second half of that, though. Let’s assume that of the 4,740 athletes not 4* or 5*, the next 1,000 (very kind estimate, it’s probably much higher because these agencies rate EVERYONE anymore) are 2* or 3* at least, and while I know info is out there, let’s assume they are 16 of the remaining 17 picks out there. That would put you in a 16/1000 chance of getting picked in the first round. Even worse, let’s assume one guy gets picked who wasn’t recruited out of high school, but excelled in college. He’s 1 out of the next 3,740. That’s just really bad odds.
All that to say, we can say recruiting doesn’t matter, but it’s all relative. These things aren’t always perfect, and they don’t guarantee championships (as Albino points out, heart is hard to evaluate), but that’s on coaching, not on athleticism. At the NFL level, very often you just want to see talent (Antonio Gates is an example) and the rest is up to coaching and finding someone who isn’t a headcase. So yeah, it’s a crapshoot because it’s still only 10% odds the guy is a first rounder, but that’s not to say it’s not an indicator of talent moreso than just pulling a guy off the street and hoping for the best.
I agree to an extent
The recruiting services are far from being infallible guides to which players will be studs and which won’t. It’s also true that coaching probably matters more than the talent of the team.
But cmon…..would you rather Nebraska be ranked #50 or #5 in next year’s recruiting rankings?
"My hardest job is to convince the people of Nebraska that 10-1 is not a losing season." - Tom Osborne
Well, Of Course They Are Inconsequential
Until you get a high ranking :-)
Then it’s something to be excited about.
"What everybody echoes or in silence passes by as true today may turn out to be falsehood tomorrow, mere smoke of opinion." Thoreau
by UltimaRatioRegum on Jul 12, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions


























