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BCS vs College Football Playoff System? - Different Views Square Off

Being a BCS guy, I know exactly how that Missouri guy feels.

Believe it or not, I'm a BCS guy. There don't seem to be too many of us around.... or at least too many who'll admit it or aren't being paid good money for their stance. 

Mike, he's a playoff guy. 

Each of us has our reasons, so Mike and I decided to have a debate to discover why each other feels the way they do about the current state of college football. 

Star-divide

Husker Mike:
I'll be blunt. I'm a playoff guy, because the bowl system really only serves warm-weather destinations and ESPN. Remember how awesome New Years Day used to be?  Nine or ten bowl games with multiple games on simultaneously; it was a feast of college football. Most bowls didn't have tie-ins to conferences except for the conference champions, so while we didn't usually get a #1 vs. #2 matchup, we usually got several matchups between Top Ten teams.

But that was then. Now every bowl has predefined matchups, and somehow the Big East champion now is an automatic qualifier for one of the big bowls.  Instead of one blowout day of football, the games are now spread over the first week of January. They're all broadcast single-file so if a game is a stinker, you can't switch to the other game.  And every game seems to be broadcast like a pregame show for the BCS title game.  Every other college sport, every other football league manages to handle a playoff system. No reason why college football can't have a playoff.

Jon Johnston:
I am going to present an argument on behalf of the BCS. It's not because I believe the BCS does everything right, but because I believe the BCS is a better option than a college football playoff system. Most pundits (i.e., Dan Wetzel's "Death to the BCS") are so biased towards a playoff that they ignore the idea that sticking with the current system may be better than what they are advocating.

Husker Mike:
So why do you think think the current system is better than a playoff?

Jon Johnston:
I'm going with the premise that if there's a real playoff system, the bowls are dead. There are plenty of playoff proposals that incorporate the major bowls, but that system would be more of a joke than people understand. Can you imagine a Northern team having to win a playoff system incorporating the bowls when they have to play consecutive weeks on the road?

With regards to the minor bowls, they reward student athletes for their hard work at the end of a season. ESPN The Magazine's poll in August  clearly showed that athletes preferred the bowl system over a playoff.
You could argue there are too many, but that's like saying you'd like to see less college football. Who wants that?

Why, when it doesn't benefit the majority of student athlete football players, would fans want a playoff other than to satisfy themselves? Sounds rather selfish to me.

Husker Mike:
Trying to incorporate the existing bowls inside a playoff structure is a blueprint for financial disaster.  But the existing bowls could still exist outside the playoff system for teams that didn't qualify for the playoffs.  They have bowls in Division II, such as the Mineral Water Bowl in Excelsior Springs, Missouri.  Think of like the NIT in college basketball.

Reread that ESPN the Magazine poll.  62% of college players want a playoff system.  So it's not as clear as you think as to the players.

But do you realize that most schools LOSE money going to bowl games?   Even Ohio State lost money going to the Rose Bowl last season.  Flying hundreds of people across the country and housing them in hotels is expensive, and most bowls don't pay nearly enough to cover the expenses.  And don't get me started about the costs to fans.

Jon Johnston:

The poll clearly shows that players prefer the current system (by a wide margin) if the alternative is a playoff with no bowls.

The vast majority of schools lose money in their athletic departments. If they were bothered by losing money, they'd do something about the escalating cost of coaches salaries and the facilities arms race. Fans can choose as to whether or not they want to spend a holiday at a bowl games, so I don't see the point about costs as being relevant.

Your other point regarding "every other sport manages to handle a playoff system" I find irrelevant as well. From one perspective, the BCS and the existing system are unique - remember your Mom asking you "if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?" Doesn't that apply here?

Most other sports don't have the inequity that exists in major college football. Major League Baseball doesn't share revenue between teams, while the NFL does - a major reason why the NFL is so much more popular than Major League Baseball.

Look at the Big 12. As of 2005, Iowa State's athletic department budget was around $29M. Texas' budget was around $90M (nearly three times as much!), yet we're supposed to pretend that these schools can compete on the same level when they can't.

Is the BCS chaos? Yes, it is, but so is everything associated with college football. Playoff advocates would like us to pretend that they can bring order to the chaos by simply creating a playoff system. It doesn't work unless you blow up the whole system (and I mean the WHOLE system, not just bowls or the BCS, but the idea of existing conference structures), and given the differences in state laws and resources and each university's mission, that isn't possible.

Embrace the chaos, Mike!

Husker Mike:
But chaos is the ONLY thing the BCS and the bowl system has going for it.  You don't give me a reason why we should retain the bowls, other than so that players can get an Xbox from the bowl committee.  Just because we've always done it, and you like it that way?  Is that really a reason?

Look at the bowl games we now have.  They're played in half-empty baseball stadiums because nobody cares about attending most of these games.  In fact, ESPN actually owns and operates many of them... why?  Because it's a cheap source of holiday programming.  They find an empty stadium somewhere, convince the chamber of commerce to sell a handful of tickets and sponsorships, and invite two teams to attend.  The schools lose money on the deal, but can't turn down a bowl invitation.

Here's what you do:  Top 8 (16 if you eliminate conference championship games) teams make the playoffs. Everybody else with a winning record gets to play in the new "bowl" system, which is kind of like the old preseason classic format.  Some could be played at neutral sites, but most will be played at campus sites.  Cuts down travel costs, increases ticket sales.  Players still get their X-boxes and trinkets.  More fans get to watch football in person.  In the cold weather areas, play the games on a Saturday afternoon...or just bite the bullet, and play a big name school in a warmer climate.  But let's nuke all of these ESPN-owned-and-operated "bowl games"...

You can have your cake and eat it too.  Change can be good!

Jon Johnston:

I don't disagree that change could be good, and other than a massive loss of tradition, I'm not sure I entirely disagree with you on changing the bowl structure. In fact, I'll even go back and say that it's entirely possible to have a playoff system while keeping much of the bowl system intact if that's the direction everything goes.
So far, I'm conceding a lot, eh, Mike?

So - what's my problem?

My problem is that the current system doesn't bother me all that much, and without me spending another 5,000 words on why it doesn't bother me, let me tell you what scares the hell out of me.

Right now, many people are hoping that the combination of Oregon, Auburn, TCU and Boise State somehow causes a rupture in the fabric of the universe, blowing up the BCS and replacing it....  but with what?

Does it get replaced with a rational solution that involves a home field advantage-based playoff system run by ever altruistic and wise administrators who always vote the correct way in polls and select the right teams for the playoffs so that no one ever gets screwed?

No, because that's not reality.

More likely a new system would be run by the NCAA who is just as likely to go back to the old bowl system including the old conference tie-ins. Or it could be run by an organization that puts together a playoff system incorporating the existing bowl system to placate playoff advocates but ignores the fact that such a system would screw every cold-weather school worse than they've been screwed over the past 100 years.

I honestly believe that the system we have isn't bad. If you want a cliche' - the evil that I know is better than the evil I don't know.

That's why I still prefer the BCS and the existing bowl system over a playoff system.

Husker Mike:
After watching some of the bowl matchups in recent years, I'd prefer to put my faith in the NCAA over the bowl system. When the matchups for March Madness comes out, there usually isn't much complaining other than from the handful of teams that missed out. But the bowl system gives us some horrible matchups at times.  Remember Kansas State in 1998? When Texas A&M upset the Wildcats, K-State went from the National Championship game and fell all the way to the Alamo Bowl.  This season, if Nebraska wins out and gets a Fiesta Bowl berth, it looks like Nebraska could get matched up with a four loss Pitt squad. Other than the opportunity to give Bo Pelini, Barney Cotton, and Marvin Sanders the opportunity to exact a little revenge against the man who nearly destroyed the program, that's not a good matchup.

Let's face it, the only thing the BCS did right was the original BCS formula.  Take the polls, add in the computer rankings and factor in strength of schedule, and I think it did a pretty good job of giving us a relatively solid way of ranking teams.  Nevermind the screwy sportswriters who screamed when the BCS formula differed with their personal rankings.  Over time, their howling forced the BCS formula to evolve into something a little less effective (taking out strength of schedule, for example).

I have faith that, in the end, the money will ensure that a sensible home-field based playoff system will win out in the end.  The opportunity to sell 100,000 tickets in Ann Arbor, Columbus, and Happy Valley will win out over the opportunity to sell 70,000 tickets in New Orleans. Sure, they may try the bowl sites originally to placate the bowls, but fans will vote with their feet. Most fans won't be able to travel thousands of miles week after week, and the empty seats will speak volumes.

Eventually, the untapped market for an NCAA football tournament will be tapped, and the money involved will be huge.  ESPN is paying $125 million a season to televise the BCS, but CBS and Turner Sports are paying over $750 million a season to televise the NCAA basketball tournament.  That's right:  $11 billion over 14 years.  Just imagine what an NCAA football tournament will bring in.  The money will be absolutely incredible.    

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Playoff is the way to go

This would shut up TCU, Utah and Boise St. Since two of these will continue to be in lower tier conferences, we’ll continue to hear them complain. Utah will be irrelevant after they move into the Pac-12 and play teams that count. The Mountain West and WAC would finally stop complaining after their teams would never make it past the second round in a playoff system. This would allow them to put up or shut up.

Pitt vs Nebraska… what a yawn!

by Jarrod Munger on Nov 12, 2010 7:27 AM CST reply actions  

Playoff

It would give us a clear cut champ, EVERY YEAR!!!!!

by Huzkerfan on Nov 12, 2010 7:48 AM CST reply actions  

Playoffs not the clear solution.

Personally I support a 4 team playoff at the end of the year. It would allow all of the bowls to be kept, but double the contenders for the national championship.

A big complaint I see about the BCS is that the it leaves out potentially deserving teams. No matter how large the playoff system, there will be teams that feel “left out,” just like it is today. Look at NCAA basketball March Madness always leaves out decent teams, and they previously had 65 teams.

No matter what the system there will always be complaining, that’s why I’m an advocate of a baby-playoff system, using the top 4 BCS teams, and keeping all current bowls.

by Huskerlax on Nov 12, 2010 8:02 AM CST reply actions  

Did Husker Mike just use

the NIT as an example to sell a playoff system? Has Husker Mike ever watched the NIT? It’s sad and pathetic. Nobody watches the NIT. Then again, nobody watches the a bowl game between the #2 MAC team vs. the #4 Big East team, but we still get those. The +1 game that has been mentioned for years essentially is the 4 team playoff already mentioned above. They’re inches away from doing that, so really both parties should be satisfied with that solution for a decade or so.

by rzor on Nov 12, 2010 8:36 AM CST reply actions  

Most bowls are exactly like the NIT right now...

Which is why there would be no change if they went to a playoff and still held the meineke car care bowl, humanitarian bowl, etc… These bowls could continue to exist and remain as irrelevant as they are today. That ESPN player poll that Jon sites asks players if they would prefer playoffs with no bowls OR the current bowl system. With only 8 or 16 teams making the playoffs and 120 teams, of course a majority of players would vote for the bowls so that they could still participate in the post season. But that is a false dilemma. You can have the playoffs with the bowls.

And the Yahoo! guys are right, college football is leaving a lot of money on the table by sticking with the current system and not switching to playoffs. If March Madness is worth 750mill per, what’s a 16 team college football playoff worth? 3 bill per?

And you’ve got to go to a 16 team playoff, that would every team that has a legitimate case for being in the playoff would make it. Otherwise how do you take 1 loss LSU over 1 loss Okie State or 1 loss Ohio St? You’d have to make room for all of those teams.

On another note, I find it awful sad that they make such a big deal of teams becoming “bowl eligible”. If your program’s biggest goal is finishing 500, you’d better take a long look in the mirror and figure out what you are all about.

by around the lake tonight on Nov 12, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

do you really believe that?

honestly, do you think that NCAA Presidents, Athletic Directors and Conference Commissioners would leave that much money on the table if it were true?

I smells like bullshit to me.

And a 16-team playoff? There’d still be arguments about who didn’t get in. It ain’t happening.

Well.. maybe eventually, but it’s the same eventually as in “Eventually the sun will supernova.”

Go Big Red Nebraska!
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by Jon Johnston on Nov 12, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't find it hard to believe

that the people who run these bowl games are greasing the palms of the correct people to keep things the way they are. If they flip to a playoff, all of these people are left out in the cold, they are very interested in keeping things the way they are. Is it really that hard to believe that a playoff would make substantially more money than the bcs bowls? 15 meaningful games that would all have a national audience, versus one? You don’t think every school president would be drooling about hosting 3 home playoff games? I find it hard to believe that this hasn’t happened already.

It could also be that the larger schools, the “haves”, have a vested interested in keeping the “have-nots” (for lack of a better term) out of the big money for the sakes of keeping the money and exposure for themselves. I think they’d rather have a larger piece out of a smaller pie, than a more equitable piece out of a larger pie.

As for arguing about who gets in, there is already arguments, so how is that different from the status quo? If you want to be in the top 16, schedule and beat tougher teams. Don’t schedule the creampuffs that NU played this year, or the ones that K-State, Ohio State and everybody else plays every year, and beat them.

With the current system, Nebraska is sitting at 8-1, has more quality wins versus more top 25 teams than any other team in the country, but no one is talking about them in the national picture because, presumably, that have zero shot at the NCG. That would definitely not be true with a playoff.

by around the lake tonight on Nov 12, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions  

that's just it

this requires some big conspiracy theory to make it work.

School presidents are a big part of making these things happen. If they really wanted it to happen, they’d have already done it. They collectively run the NCAA, so if they really wanted a playoff, they’d just rid themselves of the BCS and the NCAA would take it over, run it, and (supposedly, we don’t know that) make oodles more money.

That’s why it smells like bullshit to me. Not that they wouldn’t make more money, but that there’s some small group of people keeping things the way they are.

Unless you’re talking about the Bilderberger Group or the Illuminati, then I’d believe you in a heart beat.

Go Big Red Nebraska!
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by Jon Johnston on Nov 13, 2010 8:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Definitely Playoff

Two other points that people don’t seem to make in favor of playoffs are:

1. You’re rewarded for THIS YEAR’S performance. Is this year’s Boise State team the best one they’ve had? Who knows. But they wouldn’t be in the situation they are now without the previous teams’ excellence. Same for any big conference team that starts the season unranked (with the exception of an SEC team).

2. They reward improvement. In a bowl system you can’t slip up early in the season. If a team gels and improves throughout the season to become the best by years end doesn’t get a chance at proving it if they lost a couple of games early on. This is one of the main reason’s for the horrible matchups we have to endure at the beginning of each season. Nobody wants to schedule too many teams that could beat them. And that leads to…

2a. There would be a lot more good matchups at the beginning of the season. The good teams would play each other more often to prime their players for the rigors of the playoffs. Look at basketball, often times the games before conference play are just as good (if not better) than those after January. A good coach will schedule more quality opponents during the season so that their team is better prepared come December.

by agwbl on Nov 12, 2010 10:01 AM CST reply actions  

why not let playoff teams into bowl games?

The MLB does actually have revenue sharing. It’s not the same formula as the NFL, but whatever.

I never understood why in home-field based playoff system we’d have to bar playoff teams from the bowls. Can’t we just take the current BCS bowls and make one of them the 3rd place game, one the 5th place game, etc.?

by Trey Hillman's Chin on Nov 12, 2010 10:52 AM CST reply actions  

I like Huskerlax's suggestion, a 4-team playoff is

similar to Stewart Mandel’s Plan, with the Top 4 play their bowls, and the winners of those 2 bowls play each other for the Championship.

Or go back to the old days, with 1 poll rating the teams, and the top 2 taking on each other at the end in the Orange Bowl for the Championship. All hell broke lose when all these different polls starting popping up anyway.

by MSS1960 on Nov 12, 2010 11:17 AM CST reply actions  

Kansas State
Remember Kansas State in 1998? When Texas A&M upset the Wildcats, K-State went from the National Championship game and fell all the way to the Alamo Bowl.

They lost in the alamo bowl as well… to Purdue wooooo!

by PurdueEnginerd on Nov 12, 2010 1:32 PM CST reply actions  

Jon, you just don't get it,

according to Austin Murphy:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/austin_murphy/11/12/bcs/index.html

I still like Mandel’s plan, bowls with a playoff, expanded to top 8 though.

by MSS1960 on Nov 12, 2010 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

what a jackass

Murphy, not you.

This isn’t so much an informative column as much as it is him sneering

To underscore the pedigree of his iconic, 96-year-old bowl, executive director Scott McKibben used a medieval-looking font (Eras Medium ITC, if you must know) to craft his 257-word “anti-playoff response.”

    Was that important to the story? No, just insulting.

    Bottom line, Wetzel’s and Murphy’s 16-team playoff isn’t happening, so they can pipe dream all they want and sell the hell out of a book. Good for them.

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by Jon Johnston on Nov 13, 2010 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm a traditionalist

And I’ll back the bowls to the very end.

A couple of reasons why:

I hate to see rematches between top teams, and a playoff would almost certainly cause that to happen more often. Hell, I could see a playoff system forcing us to beat Ohio State three different times in one year! How fair would that be? 13-0 #1 seeded Nebraska vs 11-2 #8 seeded Ohio State.

Massive devaluation of regular season games. With an 8 team playoff, you’d be guaranteed to get a couple two loss squads in there every year. I personally believe that the extreme importance in every game is one of the factors that keeps college football fresh week in and week out. Take out the punishment for losing, and you get a less balanced NFL.

"My hardest job is to convince the people of Nebraska that 10-1 is not a losing season." - Tom Osborne

by jdhusker on Nov 12, 2010 5:59 PM CST reply actions  

That importance of feeling the need to win every game...

…has lead teams to schedule down and not take a chance in the offseason.

Plus, when teams are playing for home field advantage, the regular season might actually be even more meaningful. Right now, you are playing for a bowl game berth. In a playoff world, you are playing for home field advantage in the playoffs.

Put strength of schedule back into the formula, and play the games on campus sites with the higher seed hosting, and both of your arguments are satisfied.

by Husker Mike on Nov 12, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

i think

they should just put SOS back in the formulas.

Go Big Red Nebraska!
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Corn Nation!
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by Jon Johnston on Nov 13, 2010 8:36 AM CST up reply actions  

When did SOS

Get taken out?

I am all about a Playoff. Bowls were conceived in the 20’s when there were a hand full of teams in the country and it was a treat for them to play in a bowl game (Rose Bowl etc)
Here we are 90 years later and we have 25+ Bowl Games,,,only 2 of which mean anything?
College players have spent their entire lives going to playoffs, pee wee, middle school, high school and have dreams of one day being in the SUPER BOWL (thats a playoff right). But College has to be different…..cuz its for education right Just pay the kids and make a playoff.

I am pretty sure we can incorporate the Bowl system with the BCS tool for seeding a Playoff format. SOS has to be included, its all arbitrary opinion anyway, BCS, SOS, AP, SAGIRIN.

But two teams playing on the field and one coming away the VICTOR is not arbitrary.
PLAYOFFS BABY!

by Pornhusker on Nov 13, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

playoff

They really need a playoff system. The format isn’t that hard to get to. Top 20 BCS teams get in, then each conference (12 total) gets the top team left put in. The 12 teams get ranked 21-32 in the tournament based on the strength of that whole conferences out of league games. So conferences that play lower division teams get penalized for not playing tough opponents 32 teams means 6 weeks of play…..the current length of the BCS bowl schedule. The tournament would also only have 4 games less than the current bowl game schedule. The bowls could also still be alongside the tournament for teams that didn’t make the playoffs.

by Jake Fetterman on Nov 17, 2010 4:02 PM CST reply actions  

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