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BlogPoll Roundtable #1 - Starting the Season

Part of the blogpoll is participation in roundtable discussions. The first one this season is hosted by "Hey Jenny Slater".

1. In his "visiting lecturers" series posted on Every Day Should Be Saturday over the past few months, Orson Swindle asked each participant to explain which country, during which historical period, their team most resembles. Let's bring everything up to the present day and ponder: Which current sovereign nation is your team? Or to look at it another way, how does your team fit into the "world" of college football?

Before I start, I’d like to point out that my ‘Visiting Lecturer’ Write Up about Nebraska was posted this past week - thanks to Orson for the opportunity and thanks to all those wonderful replies the post received.

On with it, then.

No one knows! We can talk about past glory all we want but at this point in time we have no identity. Bo Pelini and the new coaching staff have made all the right moves so far, saying everything Nebraskans want to hear. It sounds great, it sounds like the future is bright but all this babble means nothing. Everyone knows that, so other than injuries or personal interest stories such as Nate Swift overcoming childhood paralysis, there really isn’t much real football to discuss until next week (which is why we’re doing roundtables and all that).

We are seeking an identity, and we are not sure where we fit. I’ll spare everyone the Russian reference because I don’t think it’s appropriate. Maybe instead we should consider ourselves Texas. The state, not the school. They’re a sovereign nation in their own minds, just ask anyone outside Austin.

Maybe we’re Iraq - everything we knew was blown to hell and we’re trying to pick up the pieces and figure out what’s going to happen next.

2. Every preseason roundup has to have some discussion of who's overrated, but let's go beyond that. Which team do you think is poised to crap the bed in the biggest way this season relative to high expectations, and which game do you think will begin their slide into ignominy?

Missouri isn’t overrated, but they are poised to crap the bed dependent upon the outcome of the game in Lincoln. Let me explain where I stand on Missouri.….

I have a lot of respect for Missouri. Chase Daniel is excellent, Jeremy Maclin is as explosive as they come, their offense is exceptional and their defense is good enough. They have the potential to go a long way this season, perhaps all the way to the BCS championship. Having said all that...

The Nebraska - Missouri game is a huge game. The Tigers haven’t won in Lincoln in 30 years, and while they have a better team coming into this season, the Huskers aren’t going to lay down and surrender, especially in this game. If Mizzou wins, they’re on to their way to a great season, having overcome a very large hurdle. If Nebraska wins, well, the self-doubt that has plagued Missouri for years will come back into play as the Legend of Chase Daniel takes a big huge crap on itself and the “Pinkel Factor” appears in articles all over the nation.

For Missouri fans who may be reading this, I ranked your team higher than your own bloggers in the initial blogpoll, so if you think I’m disrespecting you, you can go piss up a rope. If you think you’ll just blow into town and win, you’re either a liar or a fool who has no concept of history.

3. On the flip side of that coin, which team do you think is going to burst out of nowhere to become 2008's biggest overachiever -- this year's version of Kansas '07, as it were -- and what's going to be the big upset that makes us all finally sit up and take notice of them?

Does anyone really burst out of nowhere with all of the coverage and resources available to college football fans? I don’t think so.

How ‘bout Wisconsin with a win over Ohio State? Perhaps they can save college football from having to watch another Buckeye thrashing in the national title game!

4. Here's an "I'll hang up and listen" question. I put Ohio State and Oklahoma #1 and #2, respectively, despite their recent high-profile BCS face-plants. Where did you rank those two teams, and did those BCS issues have anything to do with it?

I put Ohio State at #2 because they’re still a darned good team playing in a conference where they currently don’t have an equal. Even if they lose to USC early, they still have time to climb back up in the polls (unless the blogpoll voters refuse to vote them up), and they likely will.

Oklahoma is at #6 because I don’t expect Sam Bradford to repeat an excellent rookie season. It has absolutely nothing to do with the BCS embarrassments.

A lot is made of the BCS problems of these teams, probably too much. At least they got there, which is more than we can say about just about everyone else.

5. Last season was a statistical outlier in countless ways, not the least of which was the fact that we ended up with a two-loss team as national champion. Do you think anyone plays a strong enough schedule to get MNC consideration as a two-loss team this year? Conversely, do you see anybody managing to sail into the national-championship game undefeated?

Strong enough schedule. Hmmmm.…. that used to mean something when the BCS took it into account. Now it means nothing and what it’s gotten us is mostly crap for non-conference games. No one will get that consideration this season because there will be enough undefeated and one-loss teams who will be vying for the top two spots.

I could see USC getting past Ohio State, then cruising through the Pac-10 undefeated. Both teams rule their conferences without equal and they don’t have to worry about a conference championship game, so the winner of that game has the clearest path to the title game.

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History

Oh, you mean the irrelevant history that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual rosters on the Missouri and Nebraska squads?

Or history in the actual relevant terms, which is the 41-6, let me say that again, 41-6, skull-fucking we gave you last year?

Thanks for ranking us high, which you should, and I’m about 90% positive you’ll win the next time we play. But this whole “We’re not saying we’re going to win, but…” message Nebraska fans are sold on is disappointing. And sad, considering the way we’re going to breeze through Lincoln like you’re not even there.

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 25, 2008 7:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

More History

Or how about some more relevant history…like the year just prior the “skull-fucking” you note? You know, the one that was effectively over at the half with the Huskers up by 3 TD’s? (The one where Daniel and his Missouri teammates actually made it look like Kevin Cosgrove knew something about coaching defense.)

Or how about the Tigers’ last trip to Lincoln before that…back when the genius of Gary Pinkel dictated that one of the best rushing quarterbacks of the last 10 years was to be transformed into a dropback passer?! In ‘04, Mizzou went one for three on long field goals to put up 3 points in yet another 3 TD Husker rout of the Tigers at home in Lincoln (perhaps even bordering on the fringe of “skull-fucking” territory?) But since there are hardly any team members who are still around from back in ’04, I guess that we can just as well toss that out as “irrelevant”. After all, the only history that counts is that which has transpired during the current roster cycle, right? Or is 41-6 the only history that counts? I’m confused. But one thing I’m certain of…and that is that history dictates that sweeping the north, en route to losing to the Sooners in the Big 12 championship and getting a berth to the Cotton Bowl has also been accomplished by another recent Big 12 north team. And those wonderful laurels didn’t seem to help the Huskers much last season.

But it would seem to be similarly irrelevant, the 30+ years of “…we’re going to breeze through Lincoln like you’re not even there” smack from the mouths of fans of teams like yours. All you have to do is do it once and you’ll find we’ll tip our collective hat to you (ask fans of OU, Texas, A&M, Okie State, Texas Tech…damn, the south owns us in our house as of late!) Until Mizzou actually does it, expect a similar type of derision.

I was scolded on a Missouri blog (actually it started on SMQ, but the Missouri blogger took the discussion to his blog where he made reference to my comments there) not too long ago for reading between the lines and inferring some things he had not said. So just to clarify, at no point did CB ever say anything here about “We’re not saying we’re going to win, but…” What he did say here is:
-Missouri is not overrated (noting how he rated them higher than their own bloggers in the initial blogpoll)
-Daniel and Maclin are explosive players
-Missouri has the potential to make the BCS championship game this season (one of perhaps a dozen-or-so teams that can realistically say so…alas, Nebraska is not one of those teams)
-Missouri hasn’t won in Lincoln in 30 years
-Nebraska isn’t going to lay down and surrender at home (just ask fans of OU, Texas, Texas Tech—all those teams I mentioned earlier…except for Ok State of course)
-If Missouri wins, they’ll have cleared a huge hurdle on the way to a very successful season
-If they don’t get over the 30-year hump in Lincoln, Mizzou fans might expect their team to experience some self-doubt…which may, in turn, lead to their typical mid-season backslide (not to burden the conversation with more irrelevant history—but Missouri in ’06: 7-1 start…8-5 finish; ’05: 5-2 start…7-5 finish; ’04: 4-1 start…5-6 finish; ’03: 5-1 start…8-5 finish)
-So therefore, the Missouri-Nebraska game is integral to the successful achievement of greater goals for the Missouri Tigers. Big 12 championship…BCS game…such goals will go up in smoke, should Mizzou suffer their 16th consecutive loss in Lincoln

Anything more that you might have personally taken from this is probably a result of your insecurities creeping into play. Never did Jon say anything remotely resembling “We’re not saying we’re going to win, but…” All I’d suggest is that you wait until your team actually does something they haven’t for a long, long time before you run your smack about breezing through Lincoln like we’re not even there. Until then (at least around anyone who’s not as willing to dismiss significant historical trends as "irrelevant") it just sounds like out-of-touch, wishful thinking. Even the worst Nebraska squads in the last 50 years have given visiting teams a tough game at home more often than not…that’s all anyone is pinning their hope to. It’s pretty far-fetched to suggest that many NU fans are making any realistic predictions at this point regarding a Husker win over the Tigers. I’ve not seen many and I’ll bet I go to Husker sites a lot more frequently than you do. Should Missouri lose to Illinois and NU beat Virginia Tech…yeah, that would probably tip the confidence scales a bit in Huskerville. But those games have yet to be played, so I think at this time, you’re sort of blowing that out of proportion a bit. It’ll all unfold soon enough.

But in the meantime, I have a hunch that some Missouri fans might be the slightest bit paranoid that their time to crow about their “skull-fucking” accomplishments may be running out…at least in the case of the Huskers. In the deep recesses of their minds (where they might be forced to reckon with history that dates beyond the latest Sports Illustrated cover telling them what they want to hear) they must somehow realize that NU may have finally made the correct moves to right their ship…so clamoring on about how Pelini is doomed to failure (“he’s never even been a head coach before, how can he possibly succeed?!”) would be best shouted at loudest possible volume and highest frequency right now…before such a notion is widely-held as the rambling of a crazy person.

by DTsker on Aug 25, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice response

Very well written.

I think Pellini’s going to do a great job… in a year. It’s just interesting because Nebraska fans seem to be stuck between their usual assumption that they will always field the best team in the North, and the memories of just how abysmally horrible they were last year.

I guess here’s a serious, legitimate question, because I get this from all the Nebraska fans I meet. It started with my wife, who’s a Husker, and her family. I asked why the fact that we hadn’t won in Lincoln in so long was such a big deal, considering we’ve NEVER been this good and Nebraska has NEVER been this bad? I mean, it’s not like in the NFL, where you still have your 8 year defensive all-star, or your all-world quarterback. You have Ganz, who showed flashes of borderline brilliance, and Lucky, who’s a tremendous back. I really think you guys are going to shock Kansas. But Missouri is fielding what may go down as its best team. Ever. I say that because you will get back to being Nebraska. I like to think about some sort of power shift in the big 12 north because, really, it’s fun. But we all know that’s not true. Missouri will never put the same resources towards football that Nebraska does, nor does it have the legacy to continually produce the same level of recruiting. That, and Pellini is one hell of a coach.

But I still fail to see why even a long standing pattern of our admittedly abject failure should result in such confidence about your ability to hang with the best team in the Big 12? It could happen, that’s certain. I mean, Iowa State wins games sometimes. Okay, that’s not even fair. Hell, stranger things have happened, we’re somehow the best team in the Big 12. That’s insane. But it’s definitely true when you look at the talent.

I just ask. If we do come in and beat you by, oh, say 35 points in Lincoln this season, will that be enough to earn your respect?

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 25, 2008 5:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmmm.... why such a big deal.

It’s probably a big deal because over the last few years we lost a lot of streaks that had been around for a long time, bowl streaks, winning seasons streaks, etc., so it’s got Husker fans hanging onto to whatever they can that sounds like a streak.

You partially answered your own question, in a way, bringing up that “power shift” thing. It’s not hard to see good recruits going to Missouri that may have come to Nebraska, so while you’re right about the resources, weirder things have happened. I’ve been around long enough to see Florida State explode under Bobby Bowden, and Florida wasn’t much until Steve Spurrier came along – so if you get the right coach and the right streak going – magic can happen. And therefore the fear that we have of Missouri continuing to rise.

Confidence about the Missouri game…. hmmmm…. it’s not confidence on my behalf. Right now, before the season starts it’s wishful thinking and smack talk. After I see us play a few games and play with the determination that I expect from a defense, then I may get a little more confident. Or not. No one knows, really, what is going to happen with this Nebraska team. Not even the players. They can tell themselves they’ll be great, but they told themselves the same thing last year, and look what that turned into.

Beat us by 35? When it happens, then we’ll talk. I’m sure of it. Ha!!!!

Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!

by corn blight on Aug 25, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be the first to admit

that for all of our newfound swagger, we all still stagger once we remember the same words you guys throw at us so many times.

We’re Still Missouri.

(shudder)

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 25, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Matt...

Thanks for the props, I try to craft my words thoughtfully…so it means a lot when someone notices. More often, people just write me off as a windbag, so I appreciate that. Thanks also for clearing up a point or two that I may have jumped the gun on. Didn’t mean to paint with too broad a brush just because you outed yourself as a Missouri fan.

I think you hit the nail on the head with regard to that of my own fanbase. This Husker offseason has been like a stroll through some sort of nightmarish purgatory…so far removed from the heaven of the “glory days”, while trying desperately with each passing day to attain an equal psychological distance from the hell of last year’s exhausting collapse. I don’t think it helps that the psyche of Joe Husker has also been tweaked by the fact that Camp Cornhusker has been hopelessly divided for over five years now. We’ve been so busy gnashing at each other for so long…when we start to venture back out to play with others, we’re extra touchy lately.

So I’ll grant that it must take great patience to deal with us, now more than ever. I mean, hey, at least you have things of the skull-fucking nature to come back with now…in the event that we start to throw around our pretentious, entitled commentary on how you’d all better respect how great we used to be! I don’t begrudge you your skull-fuckings…I only meant to suggest that winning in Lincoln has always been an achievement for any visiting team. That’s why it’s a big deal. The sod cemetery started some 20 years before, but the FSU program got their biggest shot in the arm after burying a section of our turf there. It’s always been a big deal to beat Nebraska in Lincoln. I don’t mean over the course of our lives…more like my grandfather’s. He used to tell me stories about how the great Knute Rockne quit coming because he and the four horsemen would always get beat when they traveled to Nebraska. As Corn Blight wisely points out…such is the lore we cling to when all other hope is lost. If the worst Nebraska team in history were to get beat by the best Missouri team ever…NU fans (myself included) would make sure to mention it, but it would just be a hollow excuse to try and help shield ourselves from yet another crushing blow toward the finality of the end of what was once so great and so near and so dear to us. But you’re damn right it would mean something in the heart of every true Husker. It always means something to come into our house and take what’s ours. So, from Missouri fan’s perspective, it’d seem to be all the better if Mizzou took it to the best NU had to offer, just for good measure (ring any 30-year-old bells?) and not just some picked-over carcass of what once was. But it seems some Missouri fans have been spending a lot of breath this preseason, downplaying the Huskers’ prospects. I guess my take is that they’d just be content to have it end, regardless of the circumstances…and not have to hear about that pesky little statistical trend for a while.

Primarily, I wanted to point out that (under normal circumstances) even national and conference championship-caliber teams don’t customarily breeze through Lincoln without so much as a closely contested game on the part of the Huskers. According to the pundits, Missouri is in contention for such accolades this year…but it’d take a whole lot more of your time for me to illustrate to you why, historically speaking, an easy win over NU in Lincoln is anything but a foregone conclusion. But as a Missouri fan, you should probably know enough about how hard it is to win in Lincoln…so I’ll try to make that my last patronizing point to you on this matter. But after all of that…such a long answer to your short question could’ve just as easily been: beat us by a single point in Lincoln and Mizzou will have nothing but my heartfelt respect. Beat us by 35…well, let’s just not go there quite yet.

On an aside, for whatever it’s worth, I’ve already put my money where my mouth is regarding NU/Mizzou this season. You see, I live 400 miles from Lincoln and I’m involved with high school games on Friday nights nowadays…so I don’t get to go to as many Husker games as I used to. I have to pick and choose wisely. A lot of my college buddies are in the same boat and so we all like to pick one game to go to together for an annual reunion. When it came down to it, we were all free for either the Missouri game or the Kansas game this year…so with very little hesitation, the consensus was KU. Personally, I’m sick of going back for losses and I’m of the opinion that that’s all we’d likely see in Lincoln on the first weekend in October.

by DTsker on Aug 25, 2008 11:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

you’re playing on house money. If you lose, well, hell, USC absolutely demolished the building and left with your balls in a preppy little tote bag last year. You’re supposed to lose this year. If you win? Holy Jesus Christ on a Pogostick! That’s great! We’re in our first year of “We’re supposed to win no less than 10 games and even winning 11 is a disappointment.” It’s terrifying. It’s not like when you guys were on a roll and you could absolutely rely on your dominance. Jesus, we keep looking at the carriage, waiting for the pumpkin to pop back into place.

Not that I doubt the squad. Two Heisman candidates, the best tight end in the conference, three All Big-12 defensive players and an easier schedule will do that.

Then again, none of my friends will even discuss a game past Illinois. So we’re just brimming with confidence.

The more I think about it, and I remember how good Lucky is, and how big mobile QBs can hurt us, the less I think it’ll be a blowout. I think we still win, because I believe things are meant to change, and that streaks are made to be broken. But you’re right, there’s no way NU lays down for Mizzou like they did for USC last year.

by Ridiculous Matt on Aug 26, 2008 12:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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