Turner Gill
by taflorom on Nov 1, 2007 11:31 PM CDT
33 comments
As much as everyone seems to want Bo Pelini as the next head coach (a thing I would not be totally against) I would much rather see Turner Gill. A former Husker player and coach Gill is the one to lead the turn around at NU.
Gill is a proven winner as a player. He went 28-2 as a starting qb. He finished 4th in the Heisman voting his senior year.
Gill has also served as an assistant coach for NUs past 3 head coaches(Osborne, Solich, and Callahan). He studied football as both a player and coach under Tom Osborne, the greatest coach in NU history. He coached 2 qbs who lead NU to national titles (3 if you count Brook)and one Hiesman winner. This shows he knows how to develop talent, something the current staff must have no idea how to do. He also has a reputation as an excellent recruiter.
As a head coach at Buffalo he has taken probably the worst team in the NCAA and turned them into a winner in two years. They have won more games under Gill then they had in the previous 5 years combined. He currently has them in first place in the MAC East division.
While Gill, 44, is not as firey as Bo Pelini on the sidelines he carries himself with a confident demeanor (much the same as TO himself) and is very well respected by players and coaches alike. He may very well be the only head coach that Bo would return to NU and be the DC for. And that is a capacity I would rather see Pelini in.
So if you are looking for a man who knows how to motivate players, develop talent, carry himself with class and dignity, is well respected, and is a proven winner both as a player and a coach the Turner Gill is your man.
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i don't agree
with the idea that Turner is our best option, but let's go with the hypothetical for a moment. Let's say TO hires Turner after this season. After next season a permanent AD is hired (Dave Rimington, Tim Cassidy, whoever). Turner turns out to be good, not great. After four years, let's say he's 31-15 with a bowl win or two - somewhere between Solich and Callahan. What if this continues beyond four years? How do we proceed then? By what standard does he get evaluated? Does Turner get more time to succeed because he's a former Husker? Is there a different standard for players-turned-coaches?
Rule 1A for those with the power is never hire someone you can't fire. Could Turner Gill be fired? Steve Pederson was never forgiven for firing TO's first hand-picked successor. Could the next AD risk doing it again?
Obviously, this isn't an argument regarding Turner's merits, but it's certainly something to think about. Hiring a former Husker is a double-edged sword.
by Ignignokt on Nov 2, 2007 12:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That depends...
Who is he losing to and by how much? If it is in the manner we are losing now then he would have to go. Same with whoever else might be hired. If he is losing by 5-10 to top 5 teams and we have been competitive in those games then I would say he needs more time. Are we getting beat after leading 17-3 at half? It all depends on the situation. He get evaluated the same as anyone else.
Pederson wasn't hated because he fired Solich (well ok he was by some), but for the way he handled it. He also did alot of other things that turned people off.
I think the next coach should be hired on his merits and not on the fact that he could be fired alot easier in the future.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
I have went back and reread your post and would like to add somethings I didn't have time for over lunch hour.
First, since we now play 12 games a year you are two short. So lets say he splits them two and his overall record is 32-16 (this is regular season only). You said add in a bowl win or two so lets do that and even say he loses in one, making him 34-17. This equates into a 6938775 winning percentage. It is 66% in regular season. Almost 70% and his first real class of recruits is just now Seniors, not bad I would say.
But more importantly, what have his records been? Has he improved every year? What was his record in the fourth year? Did he go 8-4 every year, go to a bowl and then go 2-1 in those years? Maybe he went 5-7 his first year and then 29-10 (a 74 winning percentage) over the next 3? Does he go 10-2 or 11-1 in his fourth year and go to a BCS bowl and have a competitive team there? Are the losses to good teams and close games or is he getting blown out by Okie ST. and Mizzu?
I guess instead of looking for someone who we could easily fire in 4 years we should be looking at someone we would want around after 10. If I were an AD at any school I would love to have a man like Turner Gill strolling my sidelines.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
with your last bit. Of course we should hire someone intending to keep him around for the long haul.
However, we ran Frank Solich out of town despite winning 75% of his games. He surely had more Husker credentials than Turner. And we all know there are plenty of people who still aren't over that decision. Imagine the scenario you described. Would fans be calling for Turner's head after four years? In College Football 2.0 you don't get five years to demonstrate improvement. Would the fans be justified? How could the new AD possibly decide? If he gets fired we're back to the same arguments about booting someone who's given his life to Husker football. There will again be those who bemoan the loss of "the Nebraska Way," whatever that is. I'm just trying to point out that hiring a former Husker has just as many potential drawbacks as benefits.
Again, none of this is a reason not to hire Turner. But it's something fans will have to think about when establishing their expectations.
by Ignignokt on Nov 2, 2007 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again...
that will mostly be decided on what his record is that last year and maybe even his last two years. Is he 10-2 or 11-1 his last year? If so, no he probably doesn't get fired. If he is 5-7 and is getting blown out consistantly then yes he probably does. People complained about a guy who had given his life to the Huskers getting fired because he had started to turn things around by going 9-3. You just dont fire a 9-3 coach who has won 75% of his games. If you wanted him fired it should have been the season before when he went 7-7 (of course SP wasn't here then).
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we did
You just dont fire a 9-3 coach who has won 75% of his games.
Well, we did. Our standards are incredibly high (perhaps unreasonably so). If Turner is hired and doesn't meet them, all of Husker Nation will commit seppuku. Two favored sons - two "Husker Guys" - failing to achieve at the highest levels?! That would just be depressing.
Now I'm all for reasonable standards. But I'm also all for putting ourselves in the best position possible. I'm not sure Turner does that.
by Ignignokt on Nov 3, 2007 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now
that Steve Pederson is gone, do you really believe that we'd fire a 9-3 coach again?
It's clear now that Pederson did this because of a HUGE ego. What are the chances that this scenario is repeated?
by Jon Johnston on Nov 3, 2007 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you
look up class in the dictionary you see a picture of Tom Osborne. I think it also says (see also Turner Gill).
Turner would be an good choice for Nebraska. But after reading the other comment from the other poster playing devils advocate, he has a point. Same with Pelini. He seems to be the "anointed one." But if he doesn't produce, then what? I definately do give TG mega props for turning "the worst" team in Div-1 football.
by 96operator on Nov 2, 2007 10:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
no matter who you hire as coach, you tell them straight up: We are giving you 5 years to turn us around and if we dont see results you will be looking for another job. Then Tom needs to lay down some basics about what is considered "turned around". It could be simply winning 8 games a year and going to a bowl game every year. Or it could be more complicated. That would depend on Tom, how he sees the current talent, and who he hires. He might give a rookie or inexperienced coach a little more leeway then he would someone who has been coaching for a while. Let them learn the ropes. Of course if he see enough talent on this team that he thinks they should be winning a Big XII championship in the next 2-3 years he may say that is a requirment. Depends on how TO feels.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are
definately reasonable expectations for any coach. Whether they are experienced or not. Does anyone think TG would come back or would he see if he can continue his turn-around at Buffalo? Because he had a pretty clean slate going in there.
by 96operator on Nov 2, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's why
I think Turner stays at Buffalo as HC.
by 96operator on Nov 2, 2007 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I dont know. Ex-Husker who played for TO, getting a call from TO, needing to turn around his alma mater. TO and TG are very good friends and I think if Tom calls Turner comes. TO was a groomsman in TGs wedding. I dont think there is a former player who can stand what is happening here and would love the chance to make things right again.
To steal the voice from Field Of Dreams: If Tom calls they will come.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I think Gill has to stay at Buffalo and build a program. As much as I'd like to see him at Nebraska, I think it's best for his career right now that he build something away from Nebraska.
You have to admit that he has a heckuva job in front of him at Buffalo, but it's his chance to show how good he can be as well.
by Jon Johnston on Nov 2, 2007 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No,
Gill has done an outstanding job turning the worst program in the country around. I mean, who in their right mind would want to go to Buffalo and coach?
Gill is solid, a good man and a good coach. I really think in 2-3 years Buffalo has a breakout season.
by 96operator on Nov 2, 2007 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gill?
Gill hasn't really turned around anything except the Bulls don't lose as often. He has not gotten the Bulls over .500. We need a coach who has won and has a trackable winning record. Gill is a nice guy, but we need a fire driven guy like Bo Pelini.
by HighPlainsDrifter on Nov 8, 2007 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree...
if Tom calls you come. If Turner continues to have sucess at BU and the next coach (unless it is Pelini) fails at NU then people will scream that we were stupid not to have hired TG now. Of course TG may still come at that time or he may just decide that after being passed over twice and already having built his program to tell NU no thanks and that would make matters worse, being shunned by a former player and coach to return home. Can you imagine what a laughing stock NU would be then? Two failed coaches (after firing one who had won 75% of his games) and then shunned by TG, not good.
Of course if TG were to come now and fail, people would say that NU had to try to turn things around with one of there own and it wouldn't be near as bad for NU.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we'd
just be normal then, not a laughing stock.
I guess we'll find out over the next few months.
by Jon Johnston on Nov 3, 2007 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uhhh, no.
"class" doesnt go for 2 up 33-0 against kansas.
it is one thing to just run a simple option play and continue to score because of how bad kansas sucked back then, but to go for 2?
that is just classless all the way.
as for the nebraska coaching search, i think that nebraska should start their search with turner gill and try everything they can to get him to come. but i dont think he will bite, he knows the pressure of the job and i think he will wait for a better job to come in ~5ish years.
you will then go to your backup option, bo pelini, and he will take the job and have pretty good success in the big 12 north. nothing like the glory years of walking over competition, but a serious contender year in and year out along with kansas and missouri.
by rockchalk on Nov 4, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What
the hell are you talking about? I dont think TG ever went for two against KU when up 33-0. I dont think Buffalo and KU have even played in the last two years. If NU went for 2 against KU when up 33-0 then you have to blame someone other then Turner Gill. I dont really remember that happening.
by taflorom on Nov 4, 2007 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thee above reply...
was meant for Corn Blight and not you 96operator as I agreed with your post.
by taflorom on Nov 2, 2007 11:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My take on Turner
Turner Gill was a great quarterback. Turner Gill was a great position coach. Turner Gill, right now, is a good head coach.
Why good?
- Supporters point out that he went to one of the worst outposts in the sport - Buffalo - and turned the program around. "He's winning in BUFFALO!!" they cry. Fair enough. He's 6-10 as a head coach. At Buffalo, that's unbelievable. But that's still not great. Great is what George O'Leary did in two years at UCF. Great is what Greg Schiano has done at Rutgers. Turner may become great, but he's not there yet.
- "If he can win there, he can win anywhere," is another common claim. This line of thinking seems to assume coaching is the same everywhere. Dennis Franchione won at TCU and Alabama - he can't win at A&M. Dirk Koetter built Boise State into the power it is today - but he was mediocre at Arizona St. Tommy Bowden led Tulane to an undefeated season in 1998 - but he's on the hot-seat every year at Clemson. Coaching success is all about the right combination of man and place. Maybe Turner's in just the right place for him - he's pretty much said so.
- "Nebraska's his dream job. He wouldn't bolt for something better." I suspect the second sentence is true of anybody. There aren't many jobs better than Nebraska. If you succeed here we build buildings just to put your name on 'em. The next coach to succeed here will stay here. Bank on it.
- I'm not in favor of any of these guys, but could someone tell me what differentiates Turner Gill from Jim Grobe, Paul Johnson, Greg Schiano, Brian Kelly, Chris Petersen, Randy Edsall, or Todd Graham? All have gone to college football doormats and made them respectable; most had more success more quickly than Turner has thusfar. What, other than his Husker ties, makes Turner stand above this crowd?
And that is what I fear most - the idea that we must go back to "The Family" in order to restore Husker football, that TO's lineage must be restored if all is to be made right with the world. This kind of thinking - tradition above all else - does not leave much room to move forward. If Turner flames out, do we go get Kevin Steele? Is Craig Bohl next in line? How many times do we go back to the TO tree? An analogy: JoePa retires after this season. Do you think Penn State would rather have long-time assistant Tom Bradley? Or up-and-comer Greg Schiano? Would FSU rather Bobby Bowden be followed by Chuck Amato or Jim Leavitt? At some point we're going to have to look outside "The Family" for good. Why not now?
Again, Turner's a good coach. If he took over, I'd be satisfied. But I sincerely think we can do better.
by Ignignokt on Nov 3, 2007 1:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
we know
Turner Gill. He know his personality. There's a huge comfort level there.
Gill does have the chance to establish himself as a very good coach if he continues to build at Buffalo, which is why I think he needs to stay there for now. The timing isn't right for him to leave and 'come home' to Nebraska.
BTW.... start another thread and make a case for one of those coaches you mention.
I'll let you pick first.
by Jon Johnston on Nov 3, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To quote you...
Maybe Turner's in just the right place for him - he's pretty much said so.
And Bill Callahan has said "I know in my heart of hearts I have done an excellent job in every area". Is that true too?
Every coach says he is happy where he is. Why would he say anything different? If Turner were to come out and say "I am doing well here and the moment someone bigger calls I am gone" do you think he would get his players to play real hard or the fans would be yelling so much? No of course not. Its called coach speak. BC uses it every game. Has been since he got here. Look at the fan outcry after he lost to CU his first season and then said "its just one game, one season." Do you think BC learned anything form that? Coaches and players have to watch what they say in public. Have you ever heard a coach put down the place he was currently coaching? I haven't.
Trust me, if TO call Turner and offers the job, Turner will be the next coach of NU.
by taflorom on Nov 3, 2007 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
coach-speak
has been pretty roundly criticized in Husker fan circles over the last four years. This is the first time I've seen it used to defend somebody. When Callahan does it, it's his "NFL personality". When Turner does it he's "keeping his players motivated." Interesting.
I'm suggesting we take Turner at his word - that he really enjoys coaching at Buffalo and feels he has something to prove there. You're right - if TO asks him to, Turner will likely come. But given how close they are, I'm betting they'd talk about it for some time first. If Turner says he feels like he has things left to do at Buffalo, there's no way Tom will ask him to abandon those goals for new ones at NU. We've seen several coaches play that card in recent years (e.g. Greg Schiano, Rich Rodriguez). It wouldn't surprise me if Turner feels the same way.
by Ignignokt on Nov 3, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did their
alma mater come calling them? Had they been coaches there for 12 years? Was their ex-head coach (a legend by the way) the AD who was trying to hire them? My guess is no.
And it was a different type of coach speak. He wasn't defending a crappy outing by his players (which is what BC has been criticized for when using coach speak).
by taflorom on Nov 3, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Schiano was the D-Coordinator at Miami before becoming the head man at Rutgers. Still he rejected the Hurricanes' overtures after last season. There's just not as much difference between the haves and have-nots in college football anymore. Coaches like Schiano (and maybe Turner) can build something at traditional football doormats and enjoy job security rather than look for a bigger paycheck at a bigger "name."
Bill Snyder is the new paradigm, not Dennis Franchione.
by Ignignokt on Nov 3, 2007 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont
know that much about Schiano so am asking these questions hoping you can answer.
Did Schiano play at Miami? How long did he coach there? Was the man who coached him a legend? Was he the AD that called to hire him? Was Schiano a legend at Miami after he played there? Had the coach he was to replace taken the team to the bottom of college football? Would his salary have been about 5 times higher then what he is currently making? Would he have been guarenteed about 100 times more extra money (Gill is getting 3,000 while BC gets like 1.7mil.)?
by taflorom on Nov 3, 2007 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
is the answer to those questions. It was his "dream job" by all accounts, however. My point is simply that recent history indicates that many coaches are comfortable staying at "lesser" schools (yes, for less money) if it means building something and increased job security. I'm not convinced that the factors you mention will/should sway Turner. If he comes to Nebraska, he gets six years to play for a national title or he's likely gone. If he continues the trajectory he's on at Buffalo, they'll name the freaking stadium after him. Where would you rather be?
by Ignignokt on Nov 3, 2007 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't
say that he gets 6 years to play for a national title or he is fired. And I would rather be at NU then anywhere. But then I am biased, I just love NU. It would be my goal to coach there.
by taflorom on Nov 4, 2007 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you didn't say that
but that's the standard we've established. Any new coach will be expected to take us to the top of the mountain quickly. The same is true at many top-tier coaching positions (e.g. Miami, Alabama, Notre Dame). That's why young coaches at upstart programs (like Schiano or Turner) have been tending to stay at the programs they're building. It's more job security and less pressure to win NOW. I'm not convinced that Turner's situation is all that different from other coaches who've faced similar decisions recently.
by Ignignokt on Nov 4, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do you
think our current situation will lower our expectations for a new coach?
by Jon Johnston on Nov 5, 2007 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also
didn't say that should sway him one way or the other but was asking because it totally changes the situation between what Gill will be going through and what Schiano went through. Not even close to the same.
by taflorom on Nov 4, 2007 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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